#111  
Old 06-17-2019, 09:44 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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IMO feeling the need for the info to be published is more indicative to the problem we have than anything else. It invites players to view the event as a quantitative experience rather than a qualitative one.

If I consider going to a movie i don't break down the ticket price as "x went to the actors, y went to the producers, z went to the theatre"- I merely say "is the experience worth what it costs?" Same for pretty much every other purchase i make in life.
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  #112  
Old 06-17-2019, 11:23 AM
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XC_Eddy XC_Eddy is offline
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Originally Posted by TAFL View Post
I can't quite justify $40 on a tournament. I'm not there for a player's pack. I'm not there to win a pile of loot. I'm only interested in playing some bad golf with other codgers who enjoy hucking plastic--and that price seems a bit stiff for that.

Ditch the player's pack--shoot, I wouldn't even need a trophy, should I win--and drop the fee to $30 and I'm good. (Leaving the only issue for me that of sleep; I work late and normally sleep until noon.)
$40 is a decent chunk for a tournament, which is part of why I only end up playing 1 or 2 per year. UP here, if you really wanted to, you could drive 3 hours or less almost every weekend and spend about $40 in entry fees to play. I'm happy to pay for the experience of playing rated competitive rounds against other players. I value that experience, but I can't justify doing that every weekend.

I'd be happier to pay $25-$30, get less in players pack and payout, and see some of that money go to the TD and staff for their efforts.

I come from the distance running world. You can pay anywhere from $25-$40 to run a competitive 5k within a couple hours most weekends if road races are your thing, and there are people who do that. You can also seek out a half for $50-$70 or a marathon for $70+.

Interestingly enough, the participation "stuff" a runner gets for running a 5k, 10k, half-marathon, or marathon comes nowhere close to cost of signing up for the event. You get a t-shirt, a banana, a bottle of water, and maybe a medal for participating and if you're fast, one for winning your age group. I have more 5k t-shirts and stupid little medals than I know what to do with. Getting one for placing overall, placing in age group, and another for participating is quite excessive.

Anyway, my point is that the entry fees at a road race always greatly exceed what is given back to the participants, even the winners. Back in my competitive high school and college running days I could win most small town weekend 5k's, but I wasn't getting close to my $$$ back in material stuff. At a certain point running little weekend 5k's wasn't worth it to me, so I stopped running them with any frequency. I can run a timed 5k by myself for free any time I want. If I want to run against some other runners every now and then I'll pay for it. Now I might train for one or two bigger events a year and maybe run a couple little local 5k's in between. My wife has started running, and she's just happy to finish the race (like a majority of 5k participants), so I'll usually sign up for the local 5k's she does and we can run them together.

Runners are paying for the experience of an organized race. That's the main thing they get in exchange for their money. Good races are worth paying for (as are good disc golf tournaments). Runners cover the material costs, too: the timing company that sets up equipment and publishes results, snacks before and after, in some cases shutting a road a down, and for longer races like marathons you are also paying to have medical staff available in case of emergency. Sure, you have some volunteers handing out water and gatorade, but the people who are putting in more than a couple hours worth of work always get paid. There is always money left over. Sometimes it goes to the organizers. More often it goes to charity. There is a reason that you see a lot more 5k fundraiser events than disc golf fundraiser events: It's very difficult to generate money running a disc golf event. The one's I have seen generate money for charity or even signs/baskets/etc for the course are almost always unsanctioned so that they can make some profit.

Coming from the running world, I was shocked at how much sruff ams took home at local weekend events. I played more less my first rec tournament 3 years ago. I paid $40, got 7th out of 20 rec players, and took home three premium discs in addition to all the trinkets. I made money AND got to experience playing in a great fun competitive tournament. That's absurd. No way should the dude getting 7th in rec should make money.

It's very easy to get your money back and more as a participant in disc golf. Makes me wish I was as good a disc golfer as I used to be a runner. It'd be a nice little side hustle and would at least pay for my disc buying addiction.

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  #113  
Old 06-17-2019, 12:04 PM
Steve West Steve West is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
IMO feeling the need for the info to be published is more indicative to the problem we have than anything else. It invites players to view the event as a quantitative experience rather than a qualitative one.

If I consider going to a movie i don't break down the ticket price as "x went to the actors, y went to the producers, z went to the theatre"- I merely say "is the experience worth what it costs?" Same for pretty much every other purchase i make in life.
That's not the breakdown. It would be "$3 goes to renting the theater, and you get a coupon for $12 of popcorn with your ticket price!". (The actors and producers should be able to make a decent living on the forced sale of popcorn.)

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  #114  
Old 06-17-2019, 01:37 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
IMO feeling the need for the info to be published is more indicative to the problem we have than anything else. It invites players to view the event as a quantitative experience rather than a qualitative one.

If I consider going to a movie i don't break down the ticket price as "x went to the actors, y went to the producers, z went to the theatre"- I merely say "is the experience worth what it costs?" Same for pretty much every other purchase i make in life.
Personally, I'm in favor of it being an option to publish the summaries (or select portions of them) easily after an event rather than it being compulsory or automatic. Primarily so that TDs have a way to quickly and easily respond to any questions that arise about the value of their event.

The only stat I think ought to be published with the event results that isn't already is event value beyond just the total pro purse (which isn't the entire pro value if there are player packs or other incidentals). It doesn't have to be a monetary value, it can be in percentage form...total value of the event as a percentage of the entry fees collected. And when I say value, I mean not just payouts but also the value of all amenities provided (food/water stations, side games, ancillary prizes like CTPs, etc), course rental/use costs, and most importantly, staff labor values. Figure out the hours put into prepping for the event and running it, put at an hourly rate on it, and credit it to the event. Put an actual value on the stuff that gets overlooked or ignored by almost everyone. Maybe if it has a value that people recognize, the next step might be acceptance of the idea of actually reasonably compensating staff for their time and effort.

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  #115  
Old 06-17-2019, 05:33 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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I'd throw my mortgage payments and the tractor purchase in, and post a really impressive "total value".

On second thought....I don't want to do any more bookkeeping, real or estimated, than I need to do to demonstrate that we complied with PDGA payout guidelines, and record the pro purse.
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