#1021  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:16 AM
ChefKoolaid ChefKoolaid is offline
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
Is this new Champion like the stuff at end of 2018 where it was like Gummy Champion or is it stiff the way some but not all Luster Champion and Metal Flake can be? Innova stopped making the Glow Innova Valkyrie and I want another Champion option to buy that feels like the way early runs of Champion felt in mid 2000's when new.
I have seen some that are stiff and some that are gummy. Buddy just snagged a faf champ firebird that feels gummy just like mid 2000s champ. But I have a few roc3s that are closer to the stiff luster.

Innova either is or was trying different blends of champ. Idk if they were trying to dial it in to what they want for full production or if they have settled on a blend yet. But as of right now, prolly gonna have to feel discs up. I think maybe OTB discs describes plastic feel so that may be an option!
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  #1022  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:51 AM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChefKoolaid View Post
Innova either is or was trying different blends of champ. Idk if they were trying to dial it in to what they want for full production or if they have settled on a blend yet. But as of right now, prolly gonna have to feel discs up. I think maybe OTB discs describes plastic feel so that may be an option!
I don't think Innova is experimenting so much as they are constrained by the source material they purchase. They buy in large quantities, so when one batch runs out and they get another, that source material may be more suited for hard, clear plastic (JL) or translucent, more gummy plastic.
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  #1023  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:54 AM
ChefKoolaid ChefKoolaid is offline
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Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
I don't think Innova is experimenting so much as they are constrained by the source material they purchase. They buy in large quantities, so when one batch runs out and they get another, that source material may be more suited for hard, clear plastic (JL) or translucent, more gummy plastic.
My guess is that they get some plastic samples in. Run a few runs to see which plastic blend they want to order then move it to full production. Thats my guess based on the blends Ive seen coming out. Really doesn't matter as my point was that I cannot definitively say if champ will be stiff or gummy. Newer runs have been gummier but they're all a lil lustery.
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  #1024  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:02 AM
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My guess is that they get some plastic samples in. Run a few runs to see which plastic blend they want to order then move it to full production. Thats my guess based on the blends Ive seen coming out. Really doesn't matter as my point was that I cannot definitively say if champ will be stiff or gummy. Newer runs have been gummier but they're all a lil lustery.
It has been posted on these boards and elsewhere that Innova (and other manufacturers) buy source material (plastic pellets) that is other people's leftovers. They get a better price if they buy what's offered them in quantity, and they don't have a lot of choice, much less samples to test. For their top quality plastics, like Star, they have to pay more to get whatever is making Star the more consistent, better plastic (yes, I know, some will debate that Star is really consistent, but I digress), and that's why Star discs cost more.
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  #1025  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
It has been posted on these boards and elsewhere that Innova (and other manufacturers) buy source material (plastic pellets) that is other people's leftovers. They get a better price if they buy what's offered them in quantity, and they don't have a lot of choice, much less samples to test. For their top quality plastics, like Star, they have to pay more to get whatever is making Star the more consistent, better plastic (yes, I know, some will debate that Star is really consistent, but I digress), and that's why Star discs cost more.
I can’t remember where I read this or who told me but the rumor is that Star is actually cheaper to produce than Champ, but they can take a higher margin since it sells just as good at the higher price.
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  #1026  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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I can’t remember where I read this or who told me but the rumor is that Star is actually cheaper to produce than Champ, but they can take a higher margin since it sells just as good at the higher price.
I've heard and read a lot of stuff about Star, including that it's a combination of Champion and Pro plastics. I do think that Pro plastic is the base for it, but I'm not sure what additives are put in to make Star consistent (and some may argue, but IMHO Star has always been pretty consistent).

Relative costs to produce? I'm not the one with that knowledge; maybe others can chime in on that...
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  #1027  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:01 AM
Moose33 Moose33 is online now
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I've heard and read a lot of stuff about Star, including that it's a combination of Champion and Pro plastics. I do think that Pro plastic is the base for it, but I'm not sure what additives are put in to make Star consistent (and some may argue, but IMHO Star has always been pretty consistent).

Relative costs to produce? I'm not the one with that knowledge; maybe others can chime in on that...
That part of the business is interesting to me but it’s quite understandable that it’s one of the most guarded pieces of information.
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  #1028  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:09 AM
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That part of the business is interesting to me but it’s quite understandable that it’s one of the most guarded pieces of information.
Totally agree. Like a good moonshine recipe, I'm not expecting Innova to give us their amounts....
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  #1029  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:16 PM
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I could see Innova buying leftover plastic in the 90s and early 2000s, but these days they go through a lot of plastic. All of this is pure speculation from everybody, but their plastic is arguably their most important “ingredient” outside of the actual molds, I’d imagine that they have a system in place by now.

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  #1030  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:28 PM
ChefKoolaid ChefKoolaid is offline
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Even if they buy leftovers they could easily get teat batches before purchasing.
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