#31  
Old 11-01-2019, 12:50 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
The rule is declared course and TD dependent. Which makes it more of an argument when player A swears it was declared and player B swears it was not. Should be an easy fix to provisional out and sort it out with the TD but sometimes that thinking isn't around.


But the actual question. Per the rules and without a declaration of casual relief on a brambles and Poison Oak. A disc that is so deep in brush that it cannot be reached, may as well be out of bounds? or does this play as if it were a solid object and relief straight back to the first location a legal stance can be taken?
I have had to provisional on a tree that fell the night before on a storm just missing the basket yet the diretcor did not say whether one could take a stance from behind the tree as it was larger then the 1 or 2 meter penalty depending on if it was declared casual (was not declared either) but not closer to the basket if one was to get under the dead tree in a part the player could not really get to the disc, so a bunch of people had to throw provisional on top of the tree and as close as they could get to 1 meter behind the basket.

So glad the rules have changed to allow for more distance from behind the lie, but not closer to the basket. Remember some woods or similar type holes are designed odd so that you could take the shot behind the lie but closer to the basket with a odd hook or U type of shape to the hole. My local out of town course is like this on a hole.
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  #32  
Old 11-08-2019, 11:35 AM
Smigles Smigles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
This is something I've wondered about before. When a disc is so deep in a bush, bramble or what not it is inaccessible. A grabber or a stick can be used to retrieve it but there is no way to reach the lie without a machete.

For all intents and purposes this disc is OB by the sounds of it.
No, OB is a zone defined by the TD.

The word you are looking for is "unplayable lie" for which we have rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roggenb3 View Post
I called someone on this in my last event for holding a branch. Before they threw though - just a "FYI, you can't hold down branches". So they proceeded to step out of the pine tree, take one step forward, step back into the tree, and then back up so the branch they were holding was now pinned behind their back and out of the way.
I remember somebody claiming that you always have to approach your lie from behind. Dont know if that is actually in the rules though. But that would make the scenario you described obsolete.

Last edited by Smigles; 11-08-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:14 PM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigles View Post
No, OB is a zone defined by the TD.

The word you are looking for is "unplayable lie" for which we have rules.
This seems to be a common misconception. Currently, there is nothing about an "unplayable lie" in the rules. You must be thinking of "optional relief"

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-...isc-golf/80302

Quote:
A player may elect at any time to take optional relief by declaring their intention to the group. The lie may then be relocated by marking a new lie which is farther from the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw is added to the player's score.
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  #34  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:35 PM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
This seems to be a common misconception. Currently, there is nothing about an "unplayable lie" in the rules. You must be thinking of "optional relief"

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-...isc-golf/80302
He is referencing the "optional rethrow" rule which was "unplayable lie" in its first iterations.

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  #35  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:59 PM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
He is referencing the "optional rethrow" rule which was "unplayable lie" in its first iterations.
Now called Abandoned Throw (809.01)

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  #36  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:59 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
He is referencing the "optional rethrow" rule which was "unplayable lie" in its first iterations.
Abandoned Throw, Optional Relief, Casual Relief, Relief from Solid Obstacles, allowing movement of casual obstacles, drop zones, Lost Disc, OB, and Relief Areas can all be considered ways to deal with unplayable-ish lies.

Not all unplayable lies should be dealt with the same way, so there is no single "unplayable lie" rule anymore.
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  #37  
Old 11-08-2019, 01:10 PM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
He is referencing the "optional rethrow" rule which was "unplayable lie" in its first iterations.
The misconception I was referring to was that "unplayable lie" still exists, but I was incorrect in saying what it was replaced by. As Krupicka pointed out, "Abandoned Throw" is the best 1:1 replacement for "unplayable lie" so to speak (if I understand things correctly). But as Steve pointed out, not every unplayable lie is the same...

I can't tell you how many times I hear people reference the "unplayable lie rule", which isn't helpful to new players or anybody wishing to reference the rulebook
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  #38  
Old 11-08-2019, 06:04 PM
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Consult20 Consult20 is offline
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Go to 19:34 on this video -- pretty egregious branch break by an mpo player (the commentators say nothing about this blatant rules violation).

https://youtu.be/XUO-l7YGiEE

As John Quinones would say, what would you do?
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  #39  
Old 11-08-2019, 08:33 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigles View Post
No, OB is a zone defined by the TD.


I remember somebody claiming that you always have to approach your lie from behind. Dont know if that is actually in the rules though. But that would make the scenario you described obsolete.
If that is in the rules then one would not be able to go to the missed putt on the side not from 1/2 of the basket that is facing the tee off area, these discs would then be OB according to the PDGA rules. So no I do not think that is a rule.

I thought the rule was: when going to throw from the lie you had to approach it from behind Lie during the throw. This is meaning anything past the back half of lie/marker that is not making the foot stance closer to the basket or forward of the lie.
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  #40  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:54 PM
Norvelljeff Norvelljeff is offline
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I had a situation where a player on my card threw into a very, very dense thorn bush. He claimed "safety" and wanted to take his lie at the edge of the bush, presumable where the disc entered the bush, without penalty. I said no way, if you want to take relief in any way, its a stroke. He argued and we decided on a provisional but ran into the issue of accessing the lie to throw the provisional. He pretty much ended up throwing from the edge of the bush with and without a penalty stoke and counting one of the shots as the provisional. Upon explaining the situation to the TD, he claimed "oh yea, you can take relief for safety without penalty" and the lower score was used. Can somebody tell me how this should have been handled becuase I know that ain't right.

Last edited by Norvelljeff; 11-09-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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