#11  
Old 10-28-2019, 03:38 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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The rules are there for a reason.

Calling someone on a rule doesn't make you a DB.
How you go about doing so is what determines if you're a DB.
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2019, 04:52 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
I guess what I'm trying to say is my experiences are very different than what you're describing. I would guess 2% of players have read the rules, but EVERYBODY thinks they know the rules and won't budge an inch. People hate being told they're wrong
I think we're talking two different things. I was talking about why people don't call the rules even when they know them (they're afraid to be labeled a dick). I do agree that there is an overabundance of people who do not know the rules very well but believe that they do, and they can be a problem too. Especially if they're the loud and stubborn types like you describe who are never wrong and can't possibly have broken a rule.

In a perfect world, everyone would know and understand the majority of the rule book and comply with all those rules. And if they were to come across a situation where a rarely seen rule comes into play, I'd hope they'd be humble enough to apply the correct rule and take whatever penalty might be warranted with grace and humility. Sadly this is a far from perfect world.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2019, 05:52 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
...

In a perfect world, everyone would know and understand the majority of the rule book and comply with all those rules. And if they were to come across a situation where a rarely seen rule comes into play, I'd hope they'd be humble enough to apply the correct rule and take whatever penalty might be warranted with grace and humility. Sadly this is a far from perfect world.
I think that for many players disc golf is the first time they have had to follow rules in a situation where everyone is equal. The experience of having a share of the burden of responsibility may be something they need to learn here.

So the game is making the world more perfect.

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  #14  
Old 10-28-2019, 06:03 PM
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Monocacy Monocacy is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
I think that for many players disc golf is the first time they have had to follow rules in a situation where everyone is equal. . .
You have just described pick-up basketball . . .
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2019, 06:26 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
At this tournament I also had 2 different people tell me that you can only take "free" optional relief after going OB if the OB is "between you and the basket".
Seppo Paju did a rules video just before USDGC where he explained the rule (incorrectly) like this.

The rule is going to be most often used when the OB is between you and the basket (or parallel to the line of play). So I wonder if people are having the rule explained to them using this situation as an example, and then they are going away with the wrong impression that this is the requirement for the rule to be invoked.

That or the 2 guys at your tourney watched Seppo's vid.

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  #16  
Old 10-29-2019, 11:23 AM
ToddL ToddL is offline
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Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
Seppo Paju did a rules video just before USDGC where he explained the rule (incorrectly) like this.
https://youtu.be/y5zp7w_3Lh4?t=278

He's 95% correct, except for the phrasing of that one sentence you were referring to. "... you can go back as long as there's OB between you and the basket."
Like you said, that's going to be the case the vast majority of the time you invoke this rule, but it's not necessary.
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2019, 05:10 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
That prevailing attitude only gets reinforced if players take Doof's approach and choose to not offer advice to prevent a rules infraction in order to call the violation.
What led you to make this up?
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nova P View Post
A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.
I called someone on this in my last event for holding a branch. Before they threw though - just a "FYI, you can't hold down branches". So they proceeded to step out of the pine tree, take one step forward, step back into the tree, and then back up so the branch they were holding was now pinned behind their back and out of the way.

I really, really, wanted to be like "Yeah, you can't do that either - you have to disturb as little as possible". But I didn't. That's one of those that no one would believe me on, I'm certain.
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  #19  
Old 10-29-2019, 05:43 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Originally Posted by roggenb3 View Post
I called someone on this in my last event for holding a branch. Before they threw though - just a "FYI, you can't hold down branches". So they proceeded to step out of the pine tree, take one step forward, step back into the tree, and then back up so the branch they were holding was now pinned behind their back and out of the way.

I really, really, wanted to be like "Yeah, you can't do that either - you have to disturb as little as possible". But I didn't. That's one of those that no one would believe me on, I'm certain.
Many of us have seen this procedure done. The rule they are violating likely isn't the "least movement rule 803.01A" but "not moving obstacles in front of your lie 803.01B" that is if the branches being bent back were actually in front of the lie before being backed into.

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  #20  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:21 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Many of us have seen this procedure done. The rule they are violating likely isn't the "least movement rule 803.01A" but "not moving obstacles in front of your lie 803.01B" that is if the branches being bent back were actually in front of the lie before being backed into.
It could be both. More precisely, violating B. without properly applying the exception in A.

Quote:
803.01 Moving Obstacles
Last updated: Monday, December 31, 2018 - 12:42

A. A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

...
B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:

1. A player may move casual obstacles that are on or behind the lie partially or completely on the lie or in the stance area, regardless of whether they extend in front of or behind the lie. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.
...
There is no need to paraphrase rules. Cut and paste, then explain if needed. "not moving obstacles in front of your lie" is not what 803.01.B.1 says. You also - generally - cannot move obstacles behind your lie.

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