#21  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:23 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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There is good overlap between those two - get 'em with both barrels I say.

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  #22  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:32 PM
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Nova P Nova P is offline
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An argument can be made for DQing the player who was advised not to break a rule to gain a competitive advantage who then immediately goes ahead and breaks the rule in a different way to gain a competitive advantage, while making aggressive eye contact with you as if daring you to do something about it.
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2019, 03:36 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Players's disc lands in a heavily thorned brush. Player has no easy entrance..anywhere. Player is close enough that a re-throw is not advisable. Player decides the least physically damaging (to eyes, etc) is to back in to a point past the lie and throw.

The above situation has come up SEVERAL times in tournaments I have played in, what is the correct procedure from both a player and officiating point of view?
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2019, 03:51 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Player decides the least physically damaging (to eyes, etc) is to back in to a point past the lie and throw.
And backing in from the basket side is least damaging? Rather than backing in from the sides or back?



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  #25  
Old 10-31-2019, 03:56 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Players's disc lands in a heavily thorned brush. Player has no easy entrance..anywhere. Player is close enough that a re-throw is not advisable. Player decides the least physically damaging (to eyes, etc) is to back in to a point past the lie and throw.

The above situation has come up SEVERAL times in tournaments I have played in, what is the correct procedure from both a player and officiating point of view?
If a player backs into the bush and is holding back branches in the process, it's a one-throw penalty (803.01.C).

If the player wants to avoid injury from the thorns, then his options are obvious: re-throw from the previous lie with a one-throw penalty or take line of play relief behind the obstacle with a one-throw penalty.

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  #26  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:20 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If a player backs into the bush and is holding back branches in the process, it's a one-throw penalty (803.01.C).

If the player wants to avoid injury from the thorns, then his options are obvious: re-throw from the previous lie with a one-throw penalty or take line of play relief behind the obstacle with a one-throw penalty.
This is something I've wondered about before. When a disc is so deep in a bush, bramble or what not it is inaccessible. A grabber or a stick can be used to retrieve it but there is no way to reach the lie without a machete.

For all intents and purposes this disc is OB by the sounds of it. Locally for our minis we play poison oak as casual relief. I personally don't usually because I only get it if i'm scratched, but in the case the brush is only black berry brambles and poison oak I'll take the relief. It becomes an argument occasionally in something sanctioned because so many are used to playing by the casual rules.

I still dislike the term of the rule "least movement". Least is just such a poorly definable word. How much contortion needs to be done to not bend or move a single branch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
And backing in from the basket side is least damaging? Rather than backing in from the sides or back?
I'm reading past the lie as behind...
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:41 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
This is something I've wondered about before. When a disc is so deep in a bush, bramble or what not it is inaccessible. A grabber or a stick can be used to retrieve it but there is no way to reach the lie without a machete.

For all intents and purposes this disc is OB by the sounds of it. Locally for our minis we play poison oak as casual relief. I personally don't usually because I only get it if i'm scratched, but in the case the brush is only black berry brambles and poison oak I'll take the relief. It becomes an argument occasionally in something sanctioned because so many are used to playing by the casual rules.

I still dislike the term of the rule "least movement". Least is just such a poorly definable word. How much contortion needs to be done to not bend or move a single branch?
There's no reason for that argument if the TD simply declares the brambles or poison oak as casual obstacles or areas. TDs can do that as they see fit per 803.02.A ("A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director").
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:52 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
There's no reason for that argument if the TD simply declares the brambles or poison oak as casual obstacles or areas. TDs can do that as they see fit per 803.02.A ("A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director").
The rule is declared course and TD dependent. Which makes it more of an argument when player A swears it was declared and player B swears it was not. Should be an easy fix to provisional out and sort it out with the TD but sometimes that thinking isn't around.


But the actual question. Per the rules and without a declaration of casual relief on a brambles and Poison Oak. A disc that is so deep in brush that it cannot be reached, may as well be out of bounds? or does this play as if it were a solid object and relief straight back to the first location a legal stance can be taken?
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2019, 05:00 PM
Armus Patheticus Armus Patheticus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
A disc that is so deep in brush that it cannot be reached
No such thing.

The disc is not ob. There is no free relief. The rules of disc golf are very simple. Your question has been answered already. The rules aren't dependent on vegetation density.
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2019, 05:11 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
No such thing.

The disc is not ob. There is no free relief. The rules of disc golf are very simple. Your question has been answered already. The rules aren't dependent on vegetation density.
I've thrown discs that can only be retrieved with a grabber or a stick. Getting my body to the lie would require breaking branches or use of a machete, at the very very least simply getting a point onto the lie can only be done by holding branches out of the way. There is a such thing as unreachable.

I said essentially OB. There is no free relief therefore the next throw is either a re-throw or optional penalized relief... which is actually more restrictive than if the disc truly is OB, regardless i'm looking at a penalty stroke.

I KNOW the rules aren't dependent on the vegetation density, thus the question in the forum. Options for a disc that can't be reached short of blazing a path into the brush.
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