#41  
Old 06-16-2021, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
If Player A picked up the principles quickly...they didn't really start that high. They started low and progressed very quickly. I wouldn't call that the same as being "natural" at something (which is probably colored by the fact I see a lot of 18-21 year old just walk up with a disc for the first time and absolutely bomb them without having an inkling of anything disc-golf related).
I'd love to see these 18-21 year olds that just walk up with a disc for the first time and bomb them without having an inkling of anything disc-golf related. I haven't encountered one yet.
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  #42  
Old 06-16-2021, 01:15 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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I'd love to see these 18-21 year olds that just walk up with a disc for the first time and bomb them without having an inkling of anything disc-golf related. I haven't encountered one yet.
I mean I know everyone throws 750feet on the internet, but I'd call their 400 foot forehand shots bombs for people who have never touched a disc before. At least they can't putt. Come on out and I'll introduce you, we always need more for league.
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Old 06-16-2021, 01:45 PM
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My point was that what you know is only half the equation. What you can communicate is the other half. Someone that had to try a lot of things and experienced lots of failures and looked into why they failed is going to have a larger toolbox when dealing with someone that isn't getting it.
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  #44  
Old 06-16-2021, 01:52 PM
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I mean I know everyone throws 750feet on the internet, but I'd call their 400 foot forehand shots bombs for people who have never touched a disc before. At least they can't putt. Come on out and I'll introduce you, we always need more for league.
I honestly don't think you've ever run into anyone who has "never touched a disc before" and just bombs 400 foot forehands. Every one of them has required SOME coaching, had to absorb SOME information to get to that - even if it came in the first week. I've seen numerous kids who within a few days were throwing 330-350 forehand (high school kids on the track team I coached are the first examples that come to mind, as I saw their distance relative to the lines on a FB field). But they all required some coaching on at the very least grip and body orientation.
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Old 06-16-2021, 01:54 PM
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My point was that what you know is only half the equation. What you can communicate is the other half. Someone that had to try a lot of things and experienced lots of failures and looked into why they failed is going to have a larger toolbox when dealing with someone that isn't getting it.
And I think that, especially given the line "golf is not a game of perfect" - everyone has experienced lots of failures, regardless of how quickly they picked up initially or at what age they picked it up initially, and so all have had the chance to look into why they failed to develop that larger toolbox - the difference between those that have it and don't has to do entirely with developed traits of curiosity and communication.
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:12 PM
autocrosscrx autocrosscrx is online now
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Fine. Having a better understanding of a broader base of your students doesn't help you teach other at all.
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  #47  
Old 06-16-2021, 02:14 PM
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My point was that what you know is only half the equation. What you can communicate is the other half. Someone that had to try a lot of things and experienced lots of failures and looked into why they failed is going to have a larger toolbox when dealing with someone that isn't getting it.
I disagree with this as a generality. I understand where the feeling this is the case comes and seems logical but there is just too many variables. I know people who have started a sport and loved it and struggled and struggled to get good but their ability to coach and correct only goes as far as the exact issues they had to overcome. They did not become students of the whole sport, they became specialists in their own shortcomings. I have also known athletes that seemed born into their sport and live it. Every aspect of it. They learn how different people approach different problems, they experiment and tweak their own skills based on what they see others doing. They have never struggled yet they have the most amazing understanding of every aspect of the sport.

Even with both those ideas the best coach is the one that can impart knowledge. One who can see what an individual is struggling with and help them over those hurdles and motivate. That point is completely separate from their individual skill, no matter what generality we want to assign to it.

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Old 06-16-2021, 02:32 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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I disagree with this as a generality. I understand where the feeling this is the case comes and seems logical but there is just too many variables. I know people who have started a sport and loved it and struggled and struggled to get good but their ability to coach and correct only goes as far as the exact issues they had to overcome. They did not become students of the whole sport, they became specialists in their own shortcomings. I have also known athletes that seemed born into their sport and live it. Every aspect of it. They learn how different people approach different problems, they experiment and tweak their own skills based on what they see others doing. They have never struggled yet they have the most amazing understanding of every aspect of the sport.

Even with both those ideas the best coach is the one that can impart knowledge. One who can see what an individual is struggling with and help them over those hurdles and motivate. That point is completely separate from their individual skill, no matter what generality we want to assign to it.
Well yes, there are tons of variables in every human being. So in making these comparisons, you have to consider that everything else is equal, and only the specific variable being discussed changes.
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:48 PM
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Well yes, there are tons of variables in every human being. So in making these comparisons, you have to consider that everything else is equal, and only the specific variable being discussed changes.
OK, then I would argue the skill of the coach as a player and how they got there is moot.

If there is a person who is a student of the game, has immense understanding of biomechanics and can impart that knowledge clearly and in a variety of ways it doesn't matter how or when or to what level they have played personally. They will be a good coach.

If there is a person who has a very narrow view of a sport and not much knowledge on how different body types can move and does a poor job communicating, it doesn't matter how or when or to what level they have played personally. They will be a bad coach.
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  #50  
Old 06-16-2021, 03:13 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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OK, then I would argue the skill of the coach as a player and how they got there is moot.
That's the variable we were discussing. So you think that all else being EQUAL...2 players who have both been playing for 5 years. Player A started as a 7, 5 years later is still a 7. Player B started as a 2, 5 years later is a 7. You think that all else being totally equal, those 2 folks are the same level of coach?
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