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Old 06-22-2021, 12:51 PM
klodkrawler05 klodkrawler05 is offline
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Default slipping after putting

Played a casual solo round today and the below occurred, realized I wasn't 100% sure what the ruling would be for this in a tournament so I thought I'd ask.

I approached my lie on a fairly steep wooded hillside covered in leaves. I'm approximately 20' (6m) from the pin, I perform my putting routine and as I push off with my back foot my front foot (the one behind my lie) slid forward an inch or two and bumped into the disc/my lie.

Based on 806.1.B "After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw."

I assume this means I take a penalty stroke for stance violation by advancing toward the target? I still maintained my balance, simply skated forward a little and made contact with my lie.

Learning from this shot I think in the future I'd move to a straddle stance where possible to avoid so much forward/back weight transfer, or else I'd clear the leaves off of my lie so that I have more solid footing on the dirt instead.
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Old 06-22-2021, 01:34 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Possibly no penalty...you didn't move past the lie (you say you bumped into the disc. You don't say the disc moved). Basically, once the disc leaves your hand (Circle1), no part of your body can touch ground ahead of your lie until you have shown balance. So, you can putt, lean forward and stay in that position for a bit, then touch your foot ahead of your lie. heck, you can even throw the disc, do the Karate Kid Crane stance, and then touch the ground before the disc once you've shown balance.

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Old 06-22-2021, 01:43 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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I'm going to say penalty on the assumption that when you "slid forward and bumped into the disc" you pushed the disc forward and slid past the point where your mark was. To Bill's point above, you didn't SAY you did...and if you just touched the disc but somehow didn't move past the "mark"...then you're fine (but that seems unlikely to me).

Advancing toward the target isn't a penalty, if you started 4" behind the mark, and slid to 1" behind the mark, you're fine. If you advanced PAST the mark...penalty.

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Old 06-22-2021, 02:10 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 View Post
Played a casual solo round today and the below occurred, realized I wasn't 100% sure what the ruling would be for this in a tournament so I thought I'd ask.

I approached my lie on a fairly steep wooded hillside covered in leaves. I'm approximately 20' (6m) from the pin, I perform my putting routine and as I push off with my back foot my front foot (the one behind my lie) slid forward an inch or two and bumped into the disc/my lie.

Based on 806.1.B "After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw."

I assume this means I take a penalty stroke for stance violation by advancing toward the target? I still maintained my balance, simply skated forward a little and made contact with my lie.

Learning from this shot I think in the future I'd move to a straddle stance where possible to avoid so much forward/back weight transfer, or else I'd clear the leaves off of my lie so that I have more solid footing on the dirt instead.
Good thought klod.

Yes, that definitely is a penalty and would cost you a stroke (if called & seconded) in an event. I teach players to always straddle the uphill for putt -- for a couple of reasons -- but that situation is definitely one of them.

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Old 06-22-2021, 03:25 PM
Dingus Dingus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by araytx View Post
Yes, that definitely is a penalty
Not sure how definite I view this. If the guy was in perfect balance, but the ground was literally sliding underneath his perfectly balanced feet, it wouldn't be a penalty in my mind.

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Old 06-22-2021, 03:40 PM
klodkrawler05 klodkrawler05 is offline
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I would have to guess that I did move the disc marking my lie, I admit I was more focused on my putt than immediately looking down at my feet. Seems unlikely to perfectly bump into the disc without pushing it forward some minute amount.

Thanks for all the quick replies everyone! Always a fun round when I get to learn something new.

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Old 06-22-2021, 04:10 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 View Post
I would have to guess that I did move the disc marking my lie, I admit I was more focused on my putt than immediately looking down at my feet. Seems unlikely to perfectly bump into the disc without pushing it forward some minute amount.

Thanks for all the quick replies everyone! Always a fun round when I get to learn something new.
When you are playing a solo round, calling penalties can be tough - did I or didn't I - there's no one but you to answer it. With other players, it is as simple as asking - did I or didn't I and getting the group's input.

BTW: on the opposite end, but still worth knowing about....read QA-STA-4 in the PDGA Rules Questions and Answers section under Stance. It is about an uphill lie and placing one foot behind and one foot in front of the marker before the throw.

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Old 06-22-2021, 04:32 PM
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If I may tag on a similar question- situation I witnessed in casual round with friends: player approaches lie, has low tree limbs in the way and dead limbs on the ground. Trips over dead limbs and (trying not to fall outright) breaks off live limb in his line of sight. (He does fall awkwardly to the ground anyway.) In a Tournament, what might be the call?
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Old 06-22-2021, 04:37 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dingus View Post
Not sure how definite I view this. If the guy was in perfect balance, but the ground was literally sliding underneath his perfectly balanced feet, it wouldn't be a penalty in my mind.
Based on 806.1.B "After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw."

He can be balanced, but he's not behind the marker disc (I mean he's still behind the disc, but the disc has been moved by him). It's 2 criteria. Balance, and being behind the mark. He might be good on the balance piece...but he's not good on being behind the mark piece (if were just the balance piece...there are lots of scenarios where one can be balanced but not behind the mark).
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Old 06-22-2021, 05:44 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seedlings View Post
If I may tag on a similar question- situation I witnessed in casual round with friends: player approaches lie, has low tree limbs in the way and dead limbs on the ground. Trips over dead limbs and (trying not to fall outright) breaks off live limb in his line of sight. (He does fall awkwardly to the ground anyway.) In a Tournament, what might be the call?
803.03 Damaging the Course
Quote:
A player who intentionally damages any part of the course receives two penalty throws
.

That is the rule and the important part is - intentionally. Which tripping isn't. So, the call should be no penalty.

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