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Old 11-04-2020, 07:14 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Default ESP Zeus vs. Star Destroyer vs. Big Z Punisher

I brought all 3 of these discs to the field today to let them battle it out for supremacy, and so I could see the real differences between them. Here are my observations:

Star Destroyer: Wysocki robot model, 173-5g. Average dome. Unlike some prior Wysocki models, this Destroyer is made of normal looking plastic. Not that weird, blizzardy, choppy looking stuff. Gorgeous disc overall, and a good flier too. Standard Destroyer fare. It flew true to the numbers and didn't surprise me one way or the other. Not a ton of turn here, but I could still get it out past 400' routinely on high anny lines. Top distance with the Destroyer was 420-430'.

ESP Zeus: 174g. Regular stamp, not first run. Average dome, definitely not flat. Well, it looks like Discraft mellowed out the Zeus just a little after the proto Kongs. I've thrown 3 Zeuses now, and all 3 are less stable than the initial Kongs. Best consistent distance of the 3. I could really lay into the Zeus, and it would respond with sweeping S curve bombs. I'm starting to like the Zeus a lot. Discraft has a good mold here. The Zeus and Destroyer were very similar in flight and distance, but I'm going to give a slight edge to the Zeus. Top distance with the Zeus was probably 430'.

Big Z Punisher: 174g. Flat, no dome at all. This disc surprised me a little, and not in good ways. This disc seemed a hair slower than the other two, and more overstable. The Punisher reminds me more of a Force or XCal. No high speed turn, and the glide wasn't remarkable. I got OK distance with the Punisher if I forced it over hard anny, but even then it'd fight out quickly. I definitely don't quite have the arm to maximize distance with the Punisher. Big boy disc, and an overstable beefcake. Top distance was probably right at 400'. The Punisher was routinely 20' or more behind the Zeus and Destroyer.

Conclusions: My only real surprise of the day was how overstable and short the Punisher was. I had thrown one of these previously and didn't remember it being that overstable. The Punisher did fly decently, but I had to work really hard for max distance with it. Flat shots were fairly glideless and short. Only by torqueing it over hard and anny could I make it really go.

The Destroyer and Zeus were pretty much neck and neck. The Zeus was a hair easier to throw, and seemed to hold high speed turn a little longer than the Destroyer. Both discs flew true to their assigned numbers and were 25' longer than the Punisher consistently. Furthermore, I really like these new Wysocki robot Destroyers. Innova seems to be using better plastic that is smoother and not as gummy as some of the later McBeth and Wysocki raptor Destroyers.

Of the 3 discs my favorite was the Zeus. I'm starting to really dig this mold. I've thrown 3 Zeuses now, and they all fly pretty much the same. The Zeus responds well to brute force and will turn a little for big flex distance. Consistent flier that'll handle all the arm I have.

Zeus: 12, 5, -1, 3
Punisher: 11, 4, 0, 3
Destroyer: 12, 5, -1, 3

Nothing surprising with the Destroyer or Zeus. Great fliers that were true to the numbers. The Punisher was slower, beefier, and had less glide than the other two.

I always assumed the Punisher and Zeus were very similar. Throwing them head to head today proved me wrong. The Zeus is a tick faster, glider, less stable, and longer than the Punisher. The Zeus and Destroyer fit firmly into the "workhorse driver" category, while the Punisher trends more toward a headwind/overstable niche driver.
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Last edited by Twmccoy; 11-04-2020 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:35 PM
Muddyboots Muddyboots is offline
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Punishers can def vary in stability. Glo being the most OS, Big Z being the least. None of them have exceptional glide and they mostly trend towards being flat. I think they improve with age. A beat ESP or Big Z is pretty fantastic for long bombing anhyzers. I've always thought they were excellent "woods" drivers given their distance potential with minimal height. Nice handfeel too.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:45 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Muddyboots View Post
Punishers can def vary in stability. Glo being the most OS, Big Z being the least. None of them have exceptional glide and they mostly trend towards being flat. I think they improve with age. A beat ESP or Big Z is pretty fantastic for long bombing anhyzers. I've always thought they were excellent "woods" drivers given their distance potential with minimal height. Nice handfeel too.
The Punisher I had today is almost new. It doesn't appear to have any wear on it. Very flat and very overstable. I have one other Punisher I threw last year, and I don't remember it being so overstable.

Of these 3 discs today, I liked the Punisher the least.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:46 PM
Muddyboots Muddyboots is offline
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I've never thrown one as OS as you describe. Even the Glo Z ones.

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Old 11-04-2020, 09:06 PM
jjmiller jjmiller is offline
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I’ve only ever thrown one Punisher. A swirly ESP that I bought right when they started making swirly ESP before McBeth signed with Discraft. It’s rim width is more comparable to a Wraith than even a Zeus and especially a Destroyer, and it’s flippier than most Wraiths I’ve thrown. Not much more stability than a couple old Glo ESP Thrashers I have. Didn’t know they made beefy ones.

Also, fun fact- the Thrasher, Punisher, Surge, and Machete all have the same rim width- which is just a hair narrower than a Wraith and a hair wider than an Orc.

Double down on the fun facts- a Zeus has a slightly narrower rim than a Force, which has a slightly narrower rim than a Destroyer, which has a very slightly narrower rim than a Crank, which has a slightly narrower rim than a Nuke OS, which has a slightly narrower rim than a standard Nuke.

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Last edited by jjmiller; 11-04-2020 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:48 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Muddyboots View Post
I've never thrown one as OS as you describe. Even the Glo Z ones.
I must have run across an abnormally overstable Punisher. I need to dig my other one out and throw it again for comparison.
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:50 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by jjmiller View Post
I’ve only ever thrown one Punisher. A swirly ESP that I bought right when they started making swirly ESP before McBeth signed with Discraft. It’s rim width is more comparable to a Wraith than even a Zeus and especially a Destroyer, and it’s flippier than most Wraiths I’ve thrown. Not much more stability than a couple old Glo ESP Thrashers I have. Didn’t know they made beefy ones.

Also, fun fact- the Thrasher, Punisher, Surge, and Machete all have the same rim width- which is just a hair narrower than a Wraith and a hair wider than an Orc.

Double down on the fun facts- a Zeus has a slightly narrower rim than a Force, which has a slightly narrower rim than a Destroyer, which has a very slightly narrower rim than a Crank, which has a slightly narrower rim than a Nuke OS, which has a slightly narrower rim than a standard Nuke.
Dang. Someone obviously studied. In the hand it feels like the Zeus rim is VERY slightly narrower than a Destroyer. The Punisher rim was very obviously narrower than both.

Regular Nukes (and Nuke SS's) definitely have fat rims.
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Old 11-05-2020, 11:04 AM
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Emoney Emoney is offline
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I bought some Punishers to try a while back. Had a BIG Z early run and it seemed to fly close to the numbers....but beat-in quickly and started having plenty of turn.
After that i got 3 ESP....those on the other hand were Flippy as hell.

One had a -2 turn out the box. The other two had unpredictable late turn. I remember yelling at my disc on several occasions....like "what are you doing!?"

The ESP just had a weird sensitive flight for me. Not even close to the numbers.
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