#3351  
Old 11-16-2020, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Broken Shoulder View Post
The boners were a complete accident.
They aimed for the heart (hypertension and chest pain) and missed by a mile.
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I mean, I'm tall but...
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  #3352  
Old 11-16-2020, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
setting aside the politics, what has PA done differently that has resulted in better outcome to date? Isn't that what really matters?
The politics are critical to the discussion. Wolf realized that we live in a democracy where power is shared, and that he's not a dictator and that his emergency powers were limited in both duration and scope. Facing the same issues as Whitmer, he decided that in order to have long term success he had to compromise to some degree with the republican controlled legislature who were merely representing the very real concerns of their constituents. He was able to get meaningful restrictions in place, that addressed key dangerous activities in a way that was effective, palatable and minimized economic damage. He was also able to do it while avoiding inflammatory rhetoric that energized those in opposition.

On the other hand we have Whitmer, who has butted heads with, belittled, and essentially ignored the state legislature. She's been slapped down by the courts for overreaching her authority. She failed to get anything meaningful done in the interim and now's she's reintroducing restrictions through a new avenue which will likely be successfully challenged again. In addition to her failures to get a cooperative government response, she's inflamed the political divide in her state and energized the anti-lockdown faction to become even more vocal and uncooperative. We have an almost identical mix of demographics in PA, yet the majority of the anti-lockdown people begrudgingly go along with most of our restrictions.

I would posit to say, that if you see your state political leaders in the national news a lot, they're probably not doing a very good job. How many times do you hear Whitmer's name compared to Wolf's? How many times does Trump tweet about Wolf vs Whitmer?

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  #3353  
Old 11-16-2020, 09:38 PM
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Both the Ohio R Gov and the Ky D Gov have been doing a good job yet both states are spiking right now.
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:39 PM
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Both the Ohio R Gov and the Ky D Gov have been doing a good job yet both states are spiking right now.
Seems like most of the Northern hemisphere is spiking right now

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Old 11-16-2020, 10:17 PM
Discraft Dad Discraft Dad is offline
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Both the Ohio R Gov and the Ky D Gov have been doing a good job yet both states are spiking right now.
I think many people are wore down from worrying about it and are going back to life as it was before. Eating out, not wearing masks, going to gatherings, etc.
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Old 11-16-2020, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
The politics are critical to the discussion. Wolf realized that we live in a democracy where power is shared, and that he's not a dictator and that his emergency powers were limited in both duration and scope. Facing the same issues as Whitmer, he decided that in order to have long term success he had to compromise to some degree with the republican controlled legislature who were merely representing the very real concerns of their constituents. He was able to get meaningful restrictions in place, that addressed key dangerous activities in a way that was effective, palatable and minimized economic damage. He was also able to do it while avoiding inflammatory rhetoric that energized those in opposition.

On the other hand we have Whitmer, who has butted heads with, belittled, and essentially ignored the state legislature. She's been slapped down by the courts for overreaching her authority. She failed to get anything meaningful done in the interim and now's she's reintroducing restrictions through a new avenue which will likely be successfully challenged again. In addition to her failures to get a cooperative government response, she's inflamed the political divide in her state and energized the anti-lockdown faction to become even more vocal and uncooperative. We have an almost identical mix of demographics in PA, yet the majority of the anti-lockdown people begrudgingly go along with most of our restrictions.

I would posit to say, that if you see your state political leaders in the national news a lot, they're probably not doing a very good job. How many times do you hear Whitmer's name compared to Wolf's? How many times does Trump tweet about Wolf vs Whitmer?
This is nothing more than rhetoric. The paths Whitmer and Wolf took were not very different in any fashion. Whitmer's initial lockdown were much more severe...they had to be. Detroit and its metro area, were initially one of the very worst in the country. From this insiders perspective, she saved the healthcare system here. The republican legislature in Michigan did nothing and have continued that course. From that point on, things simply are not that different from here and PA. The attention was from Trump, and IMO because she is a woman.
I appreciate your subtle points, but you seem to have an agenda.

Enough politics from me. I hope the east coast continues to see lower numbers, but I suspect they will not.

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Old 11-16-2020, 10:35 PM
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Both the Ohio R Gov and the Ky D Gov have been doing a good job yet both states are spiking right now.
This pretty baffling, huh? As I posted before, the variables are just endless. Hopefully, someday we will be afforded the chance to look back and draw some conclusions for the next go around.
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  #3358  
Old 11-16-2020, 10:37 PM
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Clearly the difference is that Michigan doesn't have a Lt. Gov. as intimidating looking as Pennsylvania's.

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  #3359  
Old 11-16-2020, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
The politics are critical to the discussion. Wolf realized that we live in a democracy where power is shared, and that he's not a dictator and that his emergency powers were limited in both duration and scope. Facing the same issues as Whitmer, he decided that in order to have long term success he had to compromise to some degree with the republican controlled legislature who were merely representing the very real concerns of their constituents. He was able to get meaningful restrictions in place, that addressed key dangerous activities in a way that was effective, palatable and minimized economic damage. He was also able to do it while avoiding inflammatory rhetoric that energized those in opposition.

On the other hand we have Whitmer, who has butted heads with, belittled, and essentially ignored the state legislature. She's been slapped down by the courts for overreaching her authority. She failed to get anything meaningful done in the interim and now's she's reintroducing restrictions through a new avenue which will likely be successfully challenged again. In addition to her failures to get a cooperative government response, she's inflamed the political divide in her state and energized the anti-lockdown faction to become even more vocal and uncooperative. We have an almost identical mix of demographics in PA, yet the majority of the anti-lockdown people begrudgingly go along with most of our restrictions.

I would posit to say, that if you see your state political leaders in the national news a lot, they're probably not doing a very good job. How many times do you hear Whitmer's name compared to Wolf's? How many times does Trump tweet about Wolf vs Whitmer?
In consideration of both your post and RU4POR’s, I would speculate that luck could be as significant as any of the actions.

Regardless it is unfortunate that a pandemic has been so politicized from early on.

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  #3360  
Old 11-16-2020, 11:04 PM
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Trevor Bedford, one of the nerds that found community transmission of covid when it was still “15 cases that will be down to zero” dug into the numbers on this the other day. Basically, with the mitigation measures in place we were right about Rt of 1. Epidemic wasn’t going away, but wasn’t getting worse. Then cold weather came and either due to people moving inside, more favorable temp/humidity for viral spread, or both, Rt in most of the country bumped up. Estimated nationwide is about 1.2 now. That feels like good news, even though 1.2 is exponential growth it seems like you wouldn’t need full lockdown to bring things under control, and you won’t need to vaccinate many people to hit herd immunity.
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