BillyJackO's Form Adventure*

[sidewinder22]

Slightly better - less Michael Jackson thriller in there. Your body should pivot into the backswing. Cranking the elbow is a bad crutch. Your elbow then reverses away from your weight in the forward swing. The forward swing is initiated by your weightshift.

[billyjacko]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Cranking the elbow is a bad crutch. Your elbow then reverses away from your weight in the forward swing.

So I've been watching a bunch of pros throw, and specifically watching their off arm in the backswing. It seems like the upper body back swing is where most of the big throwers have their own style. From tight to the body, to full on Thriller, there doesn't seem to be a tried and true one way to do it. I can see how keeping tight to the body will give you better balance and control, but I can also see how getting the arm out further will give you more inertia heading into the plant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's a bit of whatever you feel most comfortable with. Check out lizotte here.



Also, I'm embedding thriller in this thread, because I love the reference.

[Zphix]

Originally Posted by billyjacko

So I've been watching a bunch of pros throw, and specifically watching their off arm in the backswing. It seems like the upper body back swing is where most of the big throwers have their own style. From tight to the body, to full on Thriller, there doesn't seem to be a tried and true one way to do it. I can see how keeping tight to the body will give you better balance and control, but I can also see how getting the arm out further will give you more inertia heading into the plant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's a bit of whatever you feel most comfortable with. Check out lizotte here.

Could be wrong but I think SW is focusing on how your left elbow is coming out of your posture. While Simon does also have a "Thriller" arm, his elbow is kept tucked to his body and all he's doing is dropping his arm from his elbow down to essentially put his non-throwing hand in his pocket. By the time he's at his hit point, his hand is already in the right position over his pocket/close to his groin.

Also, something to think about, planting with more inertia doesn't do much if your balance is thrown off in the process. From what it looks like to me, you're like an ice skater trying to spin with an arm out wide.

[billyjacko]

Originally Posted by Zphix

his elbow is kept tucked to his body and all he's doing is dropping his arm

I think this is what I was missing from the conversation. What I'm doing is throwing a bunch of weight in the opposite direction, and I think that might be what's causing my to be late on the weight shift. I do feel like I'm getting my arm/hand into position, but it's way late. I'll have to keep working on it and see if I can figure it out.

[billyjacko]

Recorded some more towelz. Trying to keep the elbow more inside and drive the hand downward. The timing felt better, and honestly the swings felt faster, but I still think I'm a little late. It looks like I'm still swinging the upper arm out a little bit, but I'm not sure how much of an issue that is.

Standstill


With a lazy x-step. This one looks pretty promising though. Probably the most powerful and controlled looking pull I've videoed. I don't think the slippery shoes and laminate floors are doing me any favors, but it looks like I'm leaking weight over my foot as I'm finishing on my toes. I guess it all doesn't really matter until I hit a field with some frisbee.



Side Views

[billyjacko]

This makes me giddy right here

[sidewinder22]

I guess it depends on what thriller move, I was thinking more of this with the elbow high and out.



While I would recommend more of this thriller move keeping the elbow in like MJ and Lizotte and notice MJ is rotating his body in this move and not in the one above:

[billyjacko]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

While I would recommend more of this thriller move keeping the elbow in like MJ and Lizotte and notice MJ is rotating his body in this move and not in the one above

OMG, this is the best form critique EVER

[Zphix]

Billy,

One other thing I've noticed especially because we're working on the same things is planting with your off-hand close to your groin. I was messing around with tucking my elbow out and the extra upper body rotation you get pulling on a straight line makes it easier to plant into a closed stance it seems like. SW, is that why you called it a crutch?

I can't throw if I tuck my elbow out at all. However, over these last 2-3 weeks I've been working on shifting my weight properly and I've noticed a few things. In order to plant correctly into a closed stance (while my arm is kept tucked at my groin) it feels like I really have to step out farther and rotate my heel more. For a long time I felt like I was planting closed, it really felt like my femur/toes/plant was correct and it wasn't. For months I was perplexed about why, on video, I was always planting open when it honestly felt like I wasn't. You might have the same issue since you said when you keep your arm tucked to your groin it feels like you can't plant. I learned to step out wider and really lead with my butt in order to get the correct plant. Basically, if it feels right then go a little farther. Just something you might want to experiment with and check out.

-Richard

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by Zphix

I was messing around with tucking my elbow out and the extra upper body rotation you get pulling on a straight line makes it easier to plant into a closed stance it seems like. SW, is that why you called it a crutch?

You're previous post was correct.

It's fake sequenced x-factor separation in the backswing from the upstairs, instead of real x-factor which happens in the forward swing/transition from the ground up.