Movement in top 10

[Tyler J]

Originally Posted by nothinbuttree

Just to add my $.02

Played in October, ran out of daylight around hole 14, so didn't feel I should post a review since we didn't play all 18, but...

Course immediately jumps out as at least 4 stars. Setting, teepads, scenery, amenities, etc, all are great. But for me, moving the needle from 4.0 to 4.5 or higher ran into these roadblocks:
Navigation is rough. Course map helps, but we got turned around a few times. Little to no cell service, though there is supposed to be wifi on the course (I didn't try to use it).
I am not afraid of tough courses (Idlewild is my 2nd favorite course), but something about this course seemed overly punitive. We played a combo of red, white, and blue tees. The railroad hole from the blue tees is spectacular. Just an awesome disc golf hole. The water carries are manageable from the reds, a couple for me are impossible from whites or blues. But...the thing that got me was the number of baskets on the edge of water, with the approach running downhill to the green. So if you don't lose any discs on the water carries, you very well might on the greens, just on a 150-200' approach. You either lay up, and then have a death putt (numerous holes) or give it a go, and maybe get wet that way. Challenging for the 1050 crew perhaps, but most of us are a tad shy of that skill level.

Another observation is the course reminded me of the disc golf version of Field of Dreams. They have placed a great course there, and seem to be betting it all that they will host worlds soon. In fact, the day we played, I was told they were submitting a bid for 2023 Worlds the next day. But we were the only ones there late afternoon on a beautiful October Sunday. Like playing in a new baseball stadium with 8 fans in the stands.

Some problems which may preclude a Worlds anytime soon-they refuse to put any signage on the course, there is no other course within 50 miles that I know of, and hotels would be quite far away. Seems a battle for control of the event could be pretty major. Now I can certainly see #18 as a great finishing hole--complete with stands already in place. Look for some B or even A tiers there soon, if not already planned.

It frankly is a bomber course--even the wooded holes are mostly LONG. I did think the course, including OB, was fair--very challenging for my 300' arm, but its all right in front of you anyway. You know where you should be throwing. No super tight lines, but many holes will gain or lose you strokes depending on HOW YOU LAND your throw. Not too much tough rough per se, but about half the holes have water--carries or bordering the basket. That's a bit much for me anyway. I don't get my discs free from my sponsor--me. Its sort of a finesse/distance course. Not just grip and rip. If its very windy, I can see top pros working hard to get under par from the longs.

Should you play it? Absolutely. Several holes really are unique either in design, or setting--like the birthday cake hole (or whatever they call it). But, for a rec/int player, this course will beat you up quite a bit. Maybe more than most sub 950 players may want. Sort of like Maple Hill though, I really don't recall any significant left to right holes. Oh, and the baskets are not great--forget what they were, only that they did not impress us at all.
Were I to actually review/grade it, I think I would settle in on 4.25, not sure which way I would round...

THATS what I couldn’t think of as another con some people had - the baskets. They’re Gateway Titans since Dave McCormack from Gateway designed the course. I’m really use to them from playing St. Louis courses and don’t have a problem with them, but some folks are not impressed with them compared to other, more popular options. Eagle getting a spit out on GK Pro skins on the cake hole probably didn’t help the first impression some folks got from them.

[wolfhaley]

Originally Posted by Tyler J

THATS what I couldn’t think of as another con some people had - the baskets. They’re Gateway Titans since Dave McCormack from Gateway designed the course. I’m really use to them from playing St. Louis courses and don’t have a problem with them, but some folks are not impressed with them compared to other, more popular options. Eagle getting a spit out on GK Pro skins on the cake hole probably didn’t help the first impression some folks got from them.

Count me among the not impressed crowd for the Gateway Titan's. My one (and I believe only) time playing on them was at Foundation Park in Centrallia IL. Great course designed by Dave McCormack, but woof were them things something else. Not a fan. They're probably the sturdiest baskets I've ever seen though

I didn't mean to start a whole thing about the course, I've never played it. I thought elmex brought up a good point about "resetting" the ratings. Not going to happen but was an interesting premise nonetheless. I like the system we have going here on DGCR. And if Eagle's Crossing does in fact jump into the top ten I wonder how long it would actually stay there? Threeputt and nothinbutree's potential reviews would knock that average down to a great course, but probably also out of the top ten, if it were to make it there.

Like I said before, I have no dog in this fight. Great to hear a little more about it from trusted reviewers in a back and forth setting. And if I'm ever down there again I'll absolutely be playing it.

And it better be worth it for $25

[nothinbuttree]

Oh, and port in any snacks or beverages. The on-site store (discs too) is very well stocked, and convenient, but way overpriced for drinks/snacks. Not sure why this still tugs at my chains. Come on, you already got $25 off me to play, huh?

One last thought--they are gearing this toward top players, but the course is closed the entire non-tournament season--like Nov to March I think. When are the top players supposed to experience the course? Anyone good enough to even sniff par from the blues is likely a touring pro already. Also--not sure if they plan to have different tees for FPO, but I think whites would be too much--the water carries anyway, for all but the top several distance throwers, and reds too short, not challenging enough for top FPO players. Worlds of course would require full attention to FPO as well.

All this said, I will be going back, gotta get a full 18 in!

[Tyler J]

Originally Posted by nothinbuttree

Oh, and port in any snacks or beverages. The on-site store (discs too) is very well stocked, and convenient, but way overpriced for drinks/snacks. Not sure why this still tugs at my chains. Come on, you already got $25 off me to play, huh?

One last thought--they are gearing this toward top players, but the course is closed the entire non-tournament season--like Nov to March I think. When are the top players supposed to experience the course? Anyone good enough to even sniff par from the blues is likely a touring pro already. Also--not sure if they plan to have different tees for FPO, but I think whites would be too much--the water carries anyway, for all but the top several distance throwers, and reds too short, not challenging enough for top FPO players. Worlds of course would require full attention to FPO as well.

All this said, I will be going back, gotta get a full 18 in!

That's a great point about FPO; the reds and white do feel a little short or long respectively. If they host a high-profile tournament for FPO, maybe they would end up doing a case-by-case basis as to which tee they use on a given hole.

[johnrhouck]

Originally Posted by BuiltTooLong

John Houck mentioned several projects he's working on recently, maybe he can weigh in. I'm most interested in his re-design of Shaver Park in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. This park was destroyed during the derecho and they received a grant to renovate. Early map designs I've seen make it look like some beautiful wooded golf.

Thanks, Brett. I'm also excited about Shaver. Amazing property and amazing club there in Cedar Rapids. And a HUGE cleanup job, but the progress has been remarkable.

And you're right, I have three projects in progress that I believe are as good as any I've ever done.

Agape (Shirleysburg, PA) ran into lockdown-related funding issues, but we're hoping it'll open this spring. I love that property and am very happy with how it's turned out -- some of my favorite holes ever.

Mammoth Cave DGC at Hickory Cabins (Mammoth Cave, KY) got delayed when we decided to finish the Wolf Knob course first. The last tees on that course are going in now, and it will be open for play very soon. They already have a great Micro Course that Dee designed. And the cabins are great, too -- love staying there. On my last visit, I did renew work on Mammoth Cave.

Also working on a private course that I can't really talk about yet, but it just might be the best of the bunch.

Of course, Hillcrest Farm (Bonshaw PEI Canada), which would be #1 in the world if it had enough reviews, is getting a Gold update and some other improvements. Also working on two other Canadian courses that we have very high hopes for.

And we hope to be announcing a couple new projects in the next few weeks. Lots to look forward to in 2022.

By the way, if you have a shoelace on either foot right now, you have more string than all the courses I just mentioned, combined. I like it that way.

[Mando]

Originally Posted by johnrhouck

By the way, if you have a shoelace on either foot right now, you have more string than all the courses I just mentioned, combined. I like it that way.

Great line. I love it.

[Cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by Tyler J

That's a great point about FPO; the reds and white do feel a little short or long respectively. If they host a high-profile tournament for FPO, maybe they would end up doing a case-by-case basis as to which tee they use on a given hole.

The default should be to go shorter so that more players in the field have the distance to reach more holes with skillful shots. It produces scores based more on skill than power and keeps more players in the hunt. Same logic for MPO but it may take a while for the DGPT/NT host teams to come around on that concept.

[nothinbuttree]

Originally Posted by Tyler J

maybe they would end up doing a case-by-case basis as to which tee they use on a given hole.

Good thought--I tend to forget there is some flexibility there. That's kind of like what we did, some red, some white, some blue.

[discNDav]

I simply walked Diavolo in Cary NC today without actually playing it but immediately thought this is a top 10 contender. This comes after playing North Cove earlier in the week. With 3 tees on each hole and well defined fairways cut thru a pine forest with elevation changes and 2 holes over water, it truly is outstanding. The front 9 was so busy with amateurs and families with kids though, that surprised me for such a challenging course. I hope to play the middle white tees later in the week when the weather improves.

[wolfhaley]

Diavolo was THE course I was originally thinking might snag a top ten spot next. Almost everything I've heard about it has been nothing but glowing praise. Lake Marshall was the other one I kept hearing about that could get in, especially with 3 courses (I think) onsite. The other highly touted one I remember hearing a lot about is Echo Valley, which I'll get the chance to play in May. Albeit not nearly as much hype as the first two I mentioned. All are wishlisted, now I just gotta figure out how to get over to play them