Fee threshold for success of private courses.

[dmoore1998]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

Or 11 visits per day. Which doesn't sound like much, though you've got to figure there will be days with bad weather when nobody shows up, so you'd need higher attendance on other days.

I'd think that in the right place, with the right course, it's quite possible to generate that much revenue. Some of which will go to expenses, even if the labor and land are free.

That's probably quite a bit though for talking about a course that's likely crammed into a rather small parcel of land. I think your "right place" note is the key. It has to be a place where all other options are pretty poor...yet still a place where disc golf has significant interest. Ditto for "right place" being somewhere you can play year-round. 77 visits a week year round is one thing...154 visits a week where you can only play half the year is rougher.

[InnocentCrook]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

We have a private course with light play, and accept donations instead of a fee. I'd guess that our donations average over $5 per person -- many won't pay anything, especially locals, but some people will drop $20 in, which makes up for it.

My experience has been exactly the same.

[thecandydan]

Originally Posted by InnocentCrook

Even then, I'd prefer to keep the course free and focus on the rentals and a proshop to turn the profit.

I would leave my career in a heartbeat and focus 100% on my land/course if I ever felt like I could clear $2-3k a month in profits.

I know you don't need me to tell you this, but don't run your course "business" for the free crowd. They already have plenty of options to play free disc golf. Darn good options too (i.e. Idlewild, Lincoln Ridge, Pinhook, etc).

Stepping back, I'll digress and point out that I spent decades being super cheap . . . to the extent that I would drive to Embshoff (home course) and if Hamilton County parks had someone at the gate wanting to collect the $3 annual/$1 daily park fee I would turn around and not play frisbee golf that day. Times change, people change, I certainly have. Love that free disc golf is still the norm but there is certainly a place for pay disc golf.

When customers walk into my store, some of the candy bars are $1.60. If you shop around enough you can find some of them elsewhere for $1.25-$1.50 I think. Every so often someone picks it up, puts it down and says they won't buy it because this $1.60 candy bar should be (let's say) $1.39. I am always polite but of course I'm thinking "well, sure, go ahead and drive all the way over to WalMart to save 21 cents." Point being that is not the customer you want to market yourself too. Most of mine walk in and don't care about the 21 cents, some just don't think about it, some are actively supporting a small business, some have decided their time is worth more than 21 cents to drive over to WalMart. Those are the ones you need to serve, those that aren't so price sensitive. Same for disc golfers . . . you'll never be able to squeeze enough juice out of the "free disc golf" crowd to make it work.

Another avenue of thought for you . . . if your course was within a half-hour of my house I would gladly buy a "disc golf country club membership" from you for $1,000/year. Would want reasonable course maintenance and some kind of cabin type clubhouse (even just a covered lean-to) for that, but having an uncrowded course in a great setting I could go to anytime would be worth it to me. And that's even with me having a pretty good private course of my own. I don't know how many others are out there but I kinda think that may be something for you to consider -- finding a few dozen people willing to pay for the high end experience (well, high end by disc golf standards) instead of trying to sell snacks and individual rounds to cheapskates . . . like old me.

I know Brown County Country Club (Indiana) has annual memberships . . . their fee is $100/yr and I'd pay it without a second thought if I lived out there.

And fwiw, old cheapskate me would have some choice words for current me for writing this post. lol

[Dcinmd]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

Or 11 visits per day. Which doesn't sound like much, though you've got to figure there will be days with bad weather when nobody shows up, so you'd need higher attendance on other days.

I'd think that in the right place, with the right course, it's quite possible to generate that much revenue. Some of which will go to expenses, even if the labor and land are free.

Absolutely 100%. I was trying to figure out the best way to break it out. I am sure on a summer weekend it would be no problem to hit 20+. But a winter weekday? Eekkk,

Between weather, people's work schedules and travel time weekdays would likely be pretty scarce with the exception of a few locals or retirees.

[johnrhouck]

There are many courses that make way more than $20,000 in greens fees alone. Some make $10,000 in single month. Depends on the location, the designer, the quality of design, and maintenance.

If you don’t have a pro shop or restaurant, you can certainly do vending machines (yes, there is a disc vending machine). You could vend some healthy snack items, water, soft drinks, etc.

200 annual memberships at only $100 a year for a world class course gets you to $20,000 before anyone else even comes in the door.

[elmexdela]

what courses are the high profit courses that people keep referring to

[Cgkdisc]

I think the signal that building a pay for play site, potentially from scratch, has become profitable will be when an entrepreneur starts offering franchises, indicating they have discovered a reproducible success plan.

[Dingus]

Originally Posted by johnrhouck

There are many courses that make way more than $20,000 in greens fees alone. Some make $10,000 in single month. Depends on the location, the designer, the quality of design, and maintenance.

If you don’t have a pro shop or restaurant, you can certainly do vending machines (yes, there is a disc vending machine). You could vend some healthy snack items, water, soft drinks, etc.

200 annual memberships at only $100 a year for a world class course gets you to $20,000 before anyone else even comes in the door.

By "make" do you mean revenue or profits? $20k in profits is great, but in revenue how much does it stack up against mortgage and maintenance?

[thecandydan]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

I think the signal that building a pay for play site, potentially from scratch, has become profitable will be when an entrepreneur starts offering franchises, indicating they have discovered a reproducible success plan.

Setting aside Top Golf and golf retail stores, did that happen for golf courses? Was there ever a franchise concept for golf courses? I know there are famous designers (i.e. we have a Jack Nicklaus designed course around here) but I'd never heard of a golf course "chain." Just curious.

[biscoe]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

I think the signal that building a pay for play site, potentially from scratch, has become profitable will be when an entrepreneur starts offering franchises, indicating they have discovered a reproducible success plan.

Nah... the signal that they can be profitable is that they exist at all over a prolonged period of time in more than a minimal sense. Love of disc golf only gets you so far. Doesn't Enman own more than one in Maine? That would fit your "franchise" criteria as well.