Are Innova FW and DD designed for Star?

[seedlings]

Are Innova Fairway and Distance drivers designed/spec’d in Star, and subsequently molded in other plastics?

Are there any fairway or distance drivers that were designed in Champ or DX (that haven’t subsequently been retooled)?

[wims]

I don't think that's a universal fact, I know that for example the Thunderbird got released in Champion and Gstar first, then Star later

[seedlings]

Originally Posted by wims

I don't think that's a universal fact, I know that for example the Thunderbird got released in Champion and Gstar first, then Star later

Ok. I figured early on there was mostly DX, so early molds are probably DX designed. By the time Star came out, I didn’t know if that became the standard plastic for Dave’s designs.

[dehaas]

“Special Blend” plastic became star. Late 2005 going into 2006, so anything before that was in champion first.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...ad.php?t=86266

I don’t know if they necessarily design a mold with a plastic type in mind. I’d imagine it’s more of a matter of one particular plastic blend is easier to work with so it’s released first while the more difficult plastics take some time to iron out the kinks for production.

Back in the day you could get most models in 150 class gummy champ plastic way before blizzard technology. The premise of blizzard back in the day was they couldn’t get newer wide rimmed discs down below like 170. Before blizzard was an actual thing there were “starlight” bosses, destroyers, and maybe katanas? Dave D said there was some additive to the plastic that allowed them to shave a couple more grams off, but due to the additive they molded up pretty stiff, stupid overstable, and had kind of a grainy texture on the outer surface.

They kept the starlight name, but newer lightweight star discs are way different than the OG starlight discs.

No idea if there’s any truth to it or not but there used to be an urban legend that star plastic was just a mix of champion and pro. People thought that’s why it was pushed so hard…it was their highest priced plastic but in reality a mix of two cheaper blends.

The PDGA forum used to be a pretty wild place in the early 2000’s. There was a dedicated ask Dave D about Innova thread that he personally respond to very regularly, and was pretty open and honest about stuff. Eventually the forum traffic migrated to DGR and other places and that thread lost its momentum. He probably got tired of every other question being why CE was discontinued.

[Marmoset]

Dehaas has lots of good info in his post.
I’ll add that some molds were invented waayyy before champ to Star plastic was invented. These were designed for DX.
I have a hunch that contemporary molds are designed for Star specifically unless the new mold is just a new combo of two existing mold pieces.
For example, the Millennium Sentinel is a Cobra top and a Stingray bottom. In instances like this, both mold pieces were designed in the DX era. If the new combo makes a fun disc then it’s a win. However, if the new combo only flies well in DX then they might not release it as a new mold.

[kevdiv48]

Originally Posted by seedlings

Ok. I figured early on there was mostly DX, so early molds are probably DX designed. By the time Star came out, I didn’t know if that became the standard plastic for Dave’s designs.

Early molds were DX designed because that was the only plastic available at the time. When premium plastic came out, the discs came much more overstable than their base plastic counterparts. This led to the advent of the -X and -L variants in molds such as the Teebird, Eagle, Firebird, and later Monster and Beast. What made it confusing is some had the variant designated in the stamp whereas others could only be seen in wing comparison (see Eagle X vs Eagle L).

[dehaas]

Originally Posted by kevdiv48

Early molds were DX designed because that was the only plastic available at the time. When premium plastic came out, the discs came much more overstable than their base plastic counterparts. This led to the advent of the -X and -L variants in molds such as the Teebird, Eagle, Firebird, and later Monster and Beast. What made it confusing is some had the variant designated in the stamp whereas others could only be seen in wing comparison (see Eagle X vs Eagle L).

Yes, from what I remember that’s why the first run CE eagles, firebirds, and teebirds were really EL’s, FL’s, and TL’s. Wanted flights to be more similar to dx counterparts but in premium plastic.

It’s funny to hear all the Innova conspiracy theories now. Back then Dave D was fairly open about always tinkering with pretty much everything. If those old archives weren’t in such a terrible format it’d be a fun read for a lot of the newer players.

[GripEnemy]

Originally Posted by Marmoset

For example, the Millennium Sentinel is a Cobra top and a Stingray bottom.

Hate to be that guy but I think you mean Cobra bottom

[jakebake91]

Molds have to be cut with a plastic in mind. All plastics shrink at different rates, and the mold needs to be cut accordingly to compensate.

[Alexplz]

Would not be surprised if they are designing molds based around whatever tour series plastic is selling best - swirly star or color glow for innova, some kind of cryZtal for DC, etc. Clear push in the direction of moving ultra premium plastic these days for $20+ per disc.