#41  
Old 05-31-2017, 05:59 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by TimSyl View Post
I've only been involved in the game since 2007 (longtime "ball" golfer). I've noticed significant changes in the "typical" frolfer. I'll never forget a very good local player who carried his DX discs in an empty PBR box 10 years ago. Now, practically everyone at tournaments has either a cart or a backpack bag. Disc has always been pushed as a cheap alternative to ball golf. I can tell you, I have spent more money in 10+ years of frolf on equipment than I did in 40 years of ball golf.
You are spot on. The change is even more pronounced in the time i have been involved. I can remember telling Dave Henrickson (founder of Revolution Bags- the first true higher end bag for disc golf) some time in the late 90's that "no one will ever pay $100 for a disc golf bag".
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  #42  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:15 PM
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esdubya esdubya is offline
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I used to think that a TD should donate all his time to make a great event, and I did just that, not taking anything for myself. This is not sustainable. If you are adding value to your event, you should get value back.

It's probably up to the collective TDs to make this happen IMO. As long as there is another sucker waiting in the wings to do all of this work for no value in return, the cycle will continue.
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  #43  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:32 PM
Treeplant Treeplant is offline
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I wouldn't personally mind an extra $7 per event so that a TD could get paid $500 or $1,000 or whatever would be reasonable for all the time that goes into it. I see too many people in the disc golf world trying to help put things together, whether it's clubs or tournaments or events that burn a ton of their personal time with very little appreciation or compensation.
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  #44  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:41 PM
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JTacoma03 JTacoma03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSyl View Post
I've only been involved in the game since 2007 (longtime "ball" golfer). I've noticed significant changes in the "typical" frolfer. I'll never forget a very good local player who carried his DX discs in an empty PBR box 10 years ago. Now, practically everyone at tournaments has either a cart or a backpack bag. Disc has always been pushed as a cheap alternative to ball golf. I can tell you, I have spent more money in 10+ years of frolf on equipment than I did in 40 years of ball golf.
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
You are spot on. The change is even more pronounced in the time i have been involved. I can remember telling Dave Henrickson (founder of Revolution Bags- the first true higher end bag for disc golf) some time in the late 90's that "no one will ever pay $100 for a disc golf bag".
This is so important to note. I think that the expectations of TD's and events (as well as course design, but that's another thread) are still mired in the past. In general there's too much expectation of return on the entry fee, as well as expecting volunteer work by the TD and staff, it doesn't adequately account for the experience at the event. What is the entertainment/experience worth to the player? It must be more than $0.

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Old 05-31-2017, 06:59 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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What is the entertainment/experience worth to the player? It must be more than $0.
That is the crux of the biscuit right there.

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  #46  
Old 05-31-2017, 07:25 PM
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DSmith DSmith is offline
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It's interesting to read through this tread and see that people actually think TDs arnt making any money off of the tournaments they run. If you have AMs your making money. Now if you decided not to work on getting cash sponsors or didnt get enough to support the Pro added cash, then yeah that money has to come out of the TDs pocket ala the money generated off of the wholesale/retail difference from AM payout.
As a TD I (or the club) make money off the tournaments I run, I do the legwork or have someone under the job of hunting down added cash for the pros. I dont dip out of the money generated off the AMs to add cash for the pros. I love the pros and I love having them but they arnt making me money.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:36 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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The PDGA specifies "pass-through" fees that are allowable deductions from gross entry fees. Among them are regional series, park entrance, greens, ace, or course development fund. Conspicuous by its absence, in my opinion, is an allowance for TD/staff compensation of some sort.

TDs should, at minimum, be explicitly allowed if not encouraged to include a compensation fee in all entries that goes right in their pocket (what they do with it from there is up to them with zero judgements made). I'd say for starters that fee would match the amount of the PDGA player fee for the event (C-tier $2 per player, B-tier $3 per player, etc). Give them ALL a true means of at least somewhat being compensated for their time and effort. I'd also take it a step further and say 10% of any added cash raised is theirs as long as minimums are still met. So they have to raise $550 to meet the minimum for a B-tier and get a cut, but that only gives them more incentive to hustle for the sponsors to provide that added cash. The more they raise, the more they can make for themselves.

And **** off to anyone that says because TDs can make money from amateur payout sales, don't take from my entry fees. There are lots of TDs (and potential TDs who don't bother) out there without the means to maintain a stock of merchandise to sell, let alone to make a profit from. So they work with outside vendors or clubs and don't see a dime of those retail margins.

There are plenty of other sports and activities where the organizer of competitions gets a cut for his/her efforts. No reason disc golf can't be the same.

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Old 05-31-2017, 07:37 PM
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DSmith DSmith is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
That is the crux of the biscuit right there.
Me personally feel that a tournament should be about whos the best of the best, not how many joeshmo players we can get. But then again the old model was get as many joeshmo players that you can so you can pay out the pro side with big bucks. I guess alot of the old TDs didnt realise that alot of the ams were getting wise to how much it actually costs for their prizes, hence the revolt and their need to get reimbursed 110% just for showing up.
A tournament is an event and if you're running an event you need to make it as exciting and unique an experience for the players as you can. This is one of the reasons why I love the BHMO. I dont play it for the players pack or the payout I play it for the experience they provide. You dont get alot of tournaments doing this.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:47 PM
Quinntastic Quinntastic is offline
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I think one of the biggest problems I've been having lately is this whole "disc golf should be totally free" attitude. I mean by no means do I think that every course should charge, to the contrary. But I hear so many people complain about this and that course charging or tournaments are too expensive, if I'm paying for a tourney I better get a killer players pack. I'm happy that I enjoy a sport that has a free option pretty much all the time. So when people complain about the one tourney fee they paid, or the one day pass they had to buy, i just ask "well how much did you spend on plastic in the last month? Does that sound free?" Cause if you give your money to innova or discraft or insert brand here, that's cool. But god forbid I spend a little cash to help fund a tourney, and pay a TD what they deserve.


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  #50  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:56 PM
zontar zontar is offline
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Originally Posted by Quinntastic View Post
I think one of the biggest problems I've been having lately is this whole "disc golf should be totally free" attitude. I mean by no means do I think that every course should charge, to the contrary. But I hear so many people complain about this and that course charging or tournaments are too expensive, if I'm paying for a tourney I better get a killer players pack. I'm happy that I enjoy a sport that has a free option pretty much all the time. So when people complain about the one tourney fee they paid, or the one day pass they had to buy, i just ask "well how much did you spend on plastic in the last month? Does that sound free?" Cause if you give your money to innova or discraft or insert brand here, that's cool. But god forbid I spend a little cash to help fund a tourney, and pay a TD what they deserve.


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this! well said.
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