#31  
Old 02-21-2019, 11:44 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
When the Orc came out it ruled. A new standard for distance drivers. The old distance drivers were suddenly fairway drivers.

Then the Wraith went up a speed. Then the Destroyer another speed.
I agree the Orc was a game changer. Then again, so was the Beast. When I started playing ('04) the Orc was the newest distance driver out. It, the Flash, and the Beast were the top 3 bombers available.

Obviously the Orc has since been dwarfed by the Wraith, Destroyer, Boss, and about 100 other subsequent molds from other companies.

I will also agree on the Sidewinder being a game changer. At the time that disc came out it was by far the longest/easiest to throw understable bomber on the market. I haven't thrown a Sidewinder in years, but I was in awe of how far that thing flew back then.

I don't really think the overmold discs are a game changer. They are different and have their own following, but they don't really outshine other discs. Its merely alternative technology.

In the time I've been playing DG I'd have to call the star Destroyer the biggest game changer. That disc seems to have revolutionized high speed drivers for the masses and good players alike. It is by far the best selling disc today and combines great distance with control.
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  #32  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:30 PM
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XC_Eddy XC_Eddy is offline
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It’s quite impressive that the destroyer has been the consensus top distance driver, at least most common and popular, for 10 years. Nothing has replaced it yet. It feels like we’ve topped out on disc development for the time being.
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  #33  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:48 PM
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Jkosk Jkosk is offline
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Destroyer / speed 12s in general seem to have hit that sweet spot where the wing width is still manageable and easy to grip for most players and bigger arms can get it up to speed for max distance.

Additionally, speed 12s already see molding inconsistencies, and as wings get bigger and sharper, the inconsistencies from run-to-run become more pronounced. Throw in that wider, sharper wings will suffer where durability is concerned and cause frustration with shot-to-shot reliability. Seems like going faster than a 12 isn't worth while with present technology or design.
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  #34  
Old 02-21-2019, 01:53 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Originally Posted by Claytoon42 View Post
So, essentially the Valk kicked off the rim wars.
The "wing war" is a kinda weird thing since the company that really pushed the envelope there was ignored and it really didn't seem to effect what Innova was doing until the very end.

Innova slowly added to the wings for years. You had Gazelles and Cheetahs. Then you had Eagles and TeeBirds. Then Valks and Firebirds. Then Orcs and Starfires. Then Wraiths. The wings just kept getting bigger, but it was a 10-12 year march from 1.6 cm wings to 2.1 cm wings. Discraft did the same thing i.e. Cyclone to XL to XS to Wildcat to Flash.

Why the slow march? Innova tried to leap forward from 1.6cm to 1.9cm with the Python in the mid 90's. Players didn't like it. So instead of just jumping forward they inched forward, slowly marching toward the disc that would be the Wraith. The wings got bigger gradually so that Python wing that seemed huge in '95 seemed OK by the time it was on a Valk in '00. Discraft figured Innova was on the right path and followed along.

Dave D was on record that he thought 2.1 should be the max wing. A 2.1 cm wing on a 21 cm diameter disc seemed like a nice mathematical place to end the wings at. He posted on the PDGA site about how the Destroyer was a disc he didn't want to make but felt like he was forced into. Discraft showed no interest in pushing very far past what Innova was doing with the wings. So why did the wings go to 2.5?

The company that had jumped the script was Gateway. The Speed Demon had a 2.2 cm wing in 2003. They followed up with 2.1 cm wings on the Spirit and Illusion. At the time those wings were HUGE; Innova's big wing at the time was the just-released Beast at 2.0; they don't cross over to 2.2 until the Destroyer in 2007. By then the Gateway/Quest partnership had 2.3 and 2.4 cm wings out in the Odyssey series. A few months after the Destroyer, Quest released the Double D at a 2.6 cm wing. There was no limit to how big or weird (think Epic) the wings could be because the tech standards were a joke.

Innova wanted the wing war to end and the tomfoolery that Quest was doing squashed. The Turbo Putt I think pushed enough players over to wanting the tomfoolery to end as well (although at the time the players were loving the wing wars) so the tech standards came in and that process gave the PDGA an excuse to cap the wings and end the wing wars. By then the wings were out waaayyy past Dave D's 2.1 limit so you have the whole Boss/Nuke generation of drivers that are the end of that era. Those discs would have never come about if Dave D had his way.

Why did I type all that? It's this idea that the Valk started it. The Valk was just another disc with a wing a little bigger than Innova's last driver in that march from 1.6 to 2.1 that it seemed like they had planned. It was a really cool disc in that it was versatile and used by a wide range of players i.e big arms could hyzer flip them a mile and lower power players could still control them and get them close enough to up to speed to kick the glide in. I think it was a very significant disc in the evolution of disc golf drivers, but it really didn't have much to do with the "wing war."

THE disc in the wing war was the Gateway Speed Demon. It freaked everybody out when it showed up. You had to be there, though; nobody remembers it.

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  #35  
Old 02-21-2019, 03:39 PM
discNDav discNDav is offline
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I've been playing since '86, the Cyclone was definitely a game changer.

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  #36  
Old 02-21-2019, 04:28 PM
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I vote Ion. Ions started overmolds as a serious thing, and also started the online fanboy viral marketing methodology. Without the Ion getting started on this board, we would never have the majority of these other startup disc brands.

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  #37  
Old 02-21-2019, 04:33 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Dingus View Post
Without the Ion getting started on this board, we would never have the majority of these other startup disc brands.
Sure we would have...
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  #38  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:37 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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I don't think MVP had very much at all to do with the explosion of disc brands. They are part of that trend, not a cause of that trend.

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  #39  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
I don't think MVP had very much at all to do with the explosion of disc brands. They are part of that trend, not a cause of that trend.
Would you say Innova's patent expiring led to the smaller brand explosion?

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  #40  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:48 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is online now
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agreed plaz ion and plaz volt are the absolute and truest game changers

the rest is just a drop in the dg ocean
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