#101  
Old 06-15-2019, 07:26 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
Not really as the PDGA has other sources they pull money from and not from tournaments taking the money. I thought I remember the local club a PDGA tournament director getting a check from PGDA minus the $5 fee for not being a PDGA member for the event after. I was explaining why the PDGA does not take the Tournament money and use it to cover PDGA costs.

I could be wrong about this and the Local club a person got a check from anther club In Aberdeen that disbanded in 2007 at almost the same time our local one was about to go in remission for a while until the club started back up in 2012 or 2013 doing more then one tournament again doing an event that was PDGA sponsored.
I mean we are aware of those things. But my post was asking: are PDGA tournament prize value guidelines based on the total amateur entry fee, or the amateur entry fee minus the PDGA per player fee.

So for a C Tier with a $3 entry fee, to only cover the PDGA per player fee - is it required to pay out $3 per player in value to match 100% payout guidelines?

That was the question that was being asked. It had nothing to do with PDGA funding sources.
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  #102  
Old 06-15-2019, 08:37 PM
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The relevant answer is: it's calculated minus the PDGA per player fee. If the entry is the same as the per player fee for a C-tier, there is no payout.

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  #103  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:28 AM
roblee roblee is offline
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Player packs, PDGA fees, greens fees, series fees, park entrance fees, etc, etc are all deducted when calculating PDGA-required minimum payouts. For over 25 years our club in Lubbock covers all those expenses with fundraisers & donations so payouts (ALL divisions) are usually 200% of gross registration fees. Our goal is to break even so we go into the next cycle with what we started.
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  #104  
Old 06-16-2019, 07:52 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by roblee View Post
Player packs, PDGA fees, greens fees, series fees, park entrance fees, etc, etc are all deducted when calculating PDGA-required minimum payouts. For over 25 years our club in Lubbock covers all those expenses with fundraisers & donations so payouts (ALL divisions) are usually 200% of gross registration fees. Our goal is to break even so we go into the next cycle with what we started.
Players packs are not deducted. They, along with the prizes, constitute the payout.

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  #105  
Old 06-16-2019, 08:20 AM
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armiller armiller is offline
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I look mainly for Saturday only events due to work schedule and travel burden. In my area (Pittsburgh and NE West Virginia), I notice a few reasons that might justify higher fees? For one thing, tournaments in Pittsburgh (this should apply to many higher markets) fill up very quickly. I've always accepted that a little bit higher registration is fine simply due to the law of supply and demand. $40 or more for a Saturday only tournament at Deer Lakes or Moraine seems somewhat justifiable to me. Once again, though, I think there's enough of a draw without much of a player's pack. Would there be any problem to charge a little less and provide a less glorious player's pack? Not sure. But in the end, charging a little bit more may help encourage people to sign up only if serious about the tournament.

We had one in my region that looked attractive to me, but registration was $60 for a Saturday only tournament! I assume this was because of some kind of "infused payout" and or fancy player's pack, but this was too much for me to handle, particularly at a more run-of-the-mill kind of course.

Now I also met a local pro (back in Oklahoma City area, almost always a top finisher locally) who expressed annoyance at a trend toward amateur-only events. His comment was that TDs love these events because they are more financially profitable: in other words, payout $18-20 with a disc or shirt or merchandise which has less than $18-20 retail, as opposed to Pro divisions where payout is cash. I understand the sentiment. Again, I'd personally rather pay less and 1) get less if I win or 2) pay less for the desired tournament experience if I lose. In cases where courses/tournaments are desirable for other reasons (concentrated market, high profile/quality course), I understand a bit higher price.
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  #106  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:20 PM
roblee roblee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Players packs are not deducted. They, along with the prizes, constitute the payout.
Yea, I totally got that wrong. Player packs are added to total payout totals but they do not determine net fees. PDGA no longer lists am payouts in event results so how would Am players evaluate player value of a tournament? That info CAN be in TD Reports but those are not readily available? I think this relates to the discussion because it's hard to know why the current amateur system is accepted when the payout process is opaque.
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  #107  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:05 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roblee View Post
Yea, I totally got that wrong. Player packs are added to total payout totals but they do not determine net fees. PDGA no longer lists am payouts in event results so how would Am players evaluate player value of a tournament? That info CAN be in TD Reports but those are not readily available? I think this relates to the discussion because it's hard to know why the current amateur system is accepted when the payout process is opaque.
That's one of the things that I've been somewhat quietly agitating for any time I have chance to chat with PDGA folks about tournament-related things. I kinda understand why individual am payouts aren't tracked the way pro cash is, primarily that it could be too confusing in how it's displayed (monetary value could be mistaken for cash by readers). But I see no reason that the total am value couldn't be displayed at the top of the results in the same way that the total pro purse is displayed.

The online tournament manager has really become an outstanding tool for TDs, but one of the really nice parts about it is that after the event report is submitted, the tournament data remains accessible as a summary (though not editable) to the TD if he chooses to log in. And all that data would be great things to be made publicly accessible (perhaps with a check of a box by the TD that makes it a link on the event page).

I've taken screen shots of the event summary for the B-tier I ran two weeks ago. I'll post them as an example of what *could* be published with every event. The third pic is a report that any TD can generate in a printable format to have on display at tourney central before, during or after the event.





Attached Images
File Type: jpg DDGC19 summary-overall finances.jpg (90.1 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg DDGC19 summary-divisional finances.jpg (67.7 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg DDGC19 summary-suggested payouts.jpg (48.7 KB, 134 views)

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  #108  
Old 06-16-2019, 05:19 PM
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TAFL TAFL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armiller View Post
$40 or more for a Saturday only tournament at Deer Lakes or Moraine seems somewhat justifiable to me. Once again, though, I think there's enough of a draw without much of a player's pack. Would there be any problem to charge a little less and provide a less glorious player's pack? Not sure. But in the end, charging a little bit more may help encourage people to sign up only if serious about the tournament.
I can't quite justify $40 on a tournament. I'm not there for a player's pack. I'm not there to win a pile of loot. I'm only interested in playing some bad golf with other codgers who enjoy hucking plastic--and that price seems a bit stiff for that.

Ditch the player's pack--shoot, I wouldn't even need a trophy, should I win--and drop the fee to $30 and I'm good. (Leaving the only issue for me that of sleep; I work late and normally sleep until noon.)
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  #109  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:01 PM
roblee roblee is offline
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JC, I like your event summary and your tournament looks like a great value. I too would like to see this info readily available but understand the extra burden on TDs who choose not to provide it. I like this method as a great way to start a dialog if there are questions about payout.
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  #110  
Old 06-17-2019, 08:23 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roblee View Post
JC, I like your event summary and your tournament looks like a great value. I too would like to see this info readily available but understand the extra burden on TDs who choose not to provide it. I like this method as a great way to start a dialog if there are questions about payout.
The only burden on TDs at this point is having a way to easily publish the info. There's really no extra effort to compile the info since a) TDs have to input it all in the tournament report anyway and b) the online tournament manager organizes it in that printable form automatically. But it's still a relatively new tool. As more TDs get familiar with it, they'll figure out what they have and maybe the demand will get to a point where the PDGA makes it as easy to publish as it is to enter the info in the first place.
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