#351  
Old 10-25-2019, 04:50 PM
perklc perklc is offline
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Perhaps no one agrees simply because you're wrong?
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  #352  
Old 10-25-2019, 04:53 PM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
The courses generally exist because of the clubs, are generally maintained by the clubs and as such, respect should be given to club sponsored events.
Again you're wrong. Mostly. Clubs exist because the courses are there. Not the other way around. My club is a perfect example. I took over Sand Ridge in 2015. We had maybe 4 to 6 people per league night. The course we met at was a POS. It got redesigned to something that is MUCH better and now unless the weather is bad we rarely get less than 15 per league night. Certainly not very big by most clubs standards but certainly does demonstrate the cliche, "If you build it they will come." Add to that many club members have told me many times they would likely not participate in league without a decent course to play on. Courses first...clubs are a distant second.

Plus, you are coming from the perspective that clubs and leagues are the be-all end all for all things disc golf. This is also wrong. There are many many more casuals out there who never play with clubs or leagues than those who participate in leagues. The casuals are the reason a lot of municipalities put in courses - not clubs.

And for the life of me I cannot understand why casuals and leagues cannot occupy the same space. Jeebus people live and let live. I continually preach to my fellow league members to let the casuals through and that we do not own the course. Why is that wrong? If it's a public course, treat it as such. I use those moments with the casuals to educate them about our club and competitive play.

Also, my club does do some things to improve the local course. This afternoon I shelled out a bunch of club money to pay for materials for four much needed benches we are placing on our course. Also, our members spend A LOT of time picking up trash among other maintenance things there. Do I expect that we should get special treatment when we run leagues? Of course not. We're just trying to improve the greater good of the sport.
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  #353  
Old 10-25-2019, 05:07 PM
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Streets Streets is offline
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Perhaps no one agrees simply because you're wrong?

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  #354  
Old 10-25-2019, 05:20 PM
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Jay Dub Jay Dub is offline
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There are many many more casuals out there who never play with clubs or leagues than those who participate in leagues. The casuals are the reason a lot of municipalities put in courses - not clubs.
This is very true. I could give lots of examples but I'm not too much into long posts.

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  #355  
Old 10-25-2019, 05:23 PM
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GoobyPls GoobyPls is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
I'm thinking I should find Lloyd and ask him to sign my stock of new Grooves (under 900 rated disc) that we could sell as a collectible.
Oh man, I'd love to see Innova sign Lloyd to their lowest level of sponsorship, then release a Weema Signature Champion Groove on April 1st

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  #356  
Old 10-25-2019, 05:48 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by GoobyPls View Post
Oh man, I'd love to see Innova sign Lloyd to their lowest level of sponsorship, then release a Weema Signature Champion Groove on April 1st
If he was able to elevate his game to lower mediocre and managed a 900 rating and continued playing at these high level events the. 100% I would be much more likely to buy a Weema 900 rating
Than
McBeth ... whatever rating he gets to next year
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  #357  
Old 10-25-2019, 06:02 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
Again you're wrong. Mostly. Clubs exist because the courses are there. Not the other way around. My club is a perfect example. I took over Sand Ridge in 2015. We had maybe 4 to 6 people per league night. The course we met at was a POS. It got redesigned to something that is MUCH better and now unless the weather is bad we rarely get less than 15 per league night. Certainly not very big by most clubs standards but certainly does demonstrate the cliche, "If you build it they will come." Add to that many club members have told me many times they would likely not participate in league without a decent course to play on. Courses first...clubs are a distant second.

Plus, you are coming from the perspective that clubs and leagues are the be-all end all for all things disc golf. This is also wrong. There are many many more casuals out there who never play with clubs or leagues than those who participate in leagues. The casuals are the reason a lot of municipalities put in courses - not clubs.

And for the life of me I cannot understand why casuals and leagues cannot occupy the same space. Jeebus people live and let live. I continually preach to my fellow league members to let the casuals through and that we do not own the course. Why is that wrong? If it's a public course, treat it as such. I use those moments with the casuals to educate them about our club and competitive play.

Also, my club does do some things to improve the local course. This afternoon I shelled out a bunch of club money to pay for materials for four much needed benches we are placing on our course. Also, our members spend A LOT of time picking up trash among other maintenance things there. Do I expect that we should get special treatment when we run leagues? Of course not. We're just trying to improve the greater good of the sport.
I mean it's more complicated than that.

Clubs are instrumental in getting a lot of courses installed, so some courses would not exist without the clubs. Some courses get installed because the municipality sees an activity for their citizens and they go in without the work of a club. Trying to make it either/or oversimplifies it. There are a lot of examples of both.

So far as leagues go, the thing is that from purely a player perspective you are paying to be there. Since they are paying, the players feel like they have purchased the preferential treatment to not need to wait around letting casuals play through, especially early/late in league weeks when daylight is burning. If you are running a league trying to cater to the players and keep them happy so they come back, giving everyone a "let the casuals play through and finish in the dark" instruction may not work. I mean it could, it depends on your group and the personalities you have.

From my experience, disc golf is a players sport and the better players are given respect (even if they don't really deserve it.) So your top players will set the tone. If your top players are generally chill with a "grow the sport" attitude, "let the casuals play through" will 100% work with no issues. If the top players are more competitive, focused on their own success and quick to complain about anything they can use as an excuse when they shank a throw, well...casuals on the course will be a lightning rod for complaints. You can tell them to chill out, but unless you are also one of the top players you won't have the clout to get them to do it.

I've lived through both. Chill grow the sport guys are 100% easier to deal with and issues that cause heated arguments with a whiny bunch of players are not even issues. You can't sit and assume everybody has those guys in their league, though. If you are trying to keep a league going with a whiny bunch of guys, you have to respond to some stupid stuff.

So I wouldn't be so quick to judge people. If it's that easy where you play, that's awesome. Enjoy it. It ain't that easy everywhere.

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  #358  
Old 10-25-2019, 10:21 PM
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Hampstead Hampstead is offline
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For whatever reason, around here, a lot of the regular weekly doubles players aren't club members. That said, the club is instrumental in maintaining several local courses. Curiously enough, most of the main club members don't usually participate in weekly doubles. So it goes.
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  #359  
Old 10-27-2019, 07:46 PM
Muddyboots Muddyboots is offline
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I've actually played with Lloyd, at a Worlds, of all places. To say I wasn't geeked to play with him would be an understatement, but you know what, I survived. It wasn't that bad, really. He is a personable guy with many life experiences. I think (don't know) that he is better at his other pursuits than disc golf. He was very complimentary of good shots, and clearly knew that he was the lowest common denominator. He played relatively quickly if not well. All in all, he didn't detract from my experience in ANY meaningful way, and may have added to it. I can't know that his cohorts are the same, but I haven't yet been privy to a convincing reason to exclude them.

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  #360  
Old 10-27-2019, 11:03 PM
Tigga Tigga is offline
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I guess this is a bit of-topic, but it struck me, as I couldn't imagine it was a thing..
Sponsored players, much less Sponsored pros, having to pay their own reg fees for a tournament?
That blew my mind a little, that they would have to deal with coughing up reg fees as they travel the country week to week putting their sponsors wares on display..
I know there are many levels of "sponsorship" but I had, incorrectly apparently, assumed along with discs, a bag or some clothes, etc, paying the fees to get their players into tournaments and seen by the widest possible audience would be a "no-brainer" for a company.
In fact, I would've thought that's some of what a team manager/owner did. Made sure their players were signed up, paid reg fees, etc, so their players driving around the country all season weren't having to deal with all that.

Wow, eye-opener for sure.
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