#11  
Old 10-23-2019, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post

My question was, can the TD:

1. Simply keep the entry fees?
2. Divide the fees 50/50 and put half towards Pro payouts while using the other half for current/future event expenses?

The response I received was that either 1. or 2. are perfectly acceptable. With a joke thrown in about using example #1 to take your wife out to dinner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
The PDGA has a policy to define when a refund is required and when entry fees are forfeited by the player. I'm not sure why they need a firm policy on what TDs must do with forfeited entry fees.
I think the PDGA should indicate that it is the TD's discretion what to do with dropout fees. That way TDs know how to handle it & players have evidence that it is TDs decision.

Our club keeps the entry fee in the purse for the division the drop-out would have played.
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2019, 12:02 AM
Armus Patheticus Armus Patheticus is offline
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How about forfeited winnings? I once tried to avoid the post-tournament crowds around the shop doing payouts and came back the next day. They said I was too late, payouts were day of only. So I missed out on 320 bucks worth of crap. Which is ok, I don't usually redeem any winnings any more, but I was a little disappointed then as I had promised some friends a few requested discs.
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2019, 07:05 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
How about forfeited winnings?
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1.10 Distribution of Prizes
G.2 Players who leave before the official distribution of prizes do not relinquish their winnings but they are responsible for contacting the TD as soon as possible to arrange for claiming those winnings and are also responsible for any associated shipping costs.
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Old 10-24-2019, 07:38 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
How about forfeited winnings? I once tried to avoid the post-tournament crowds around the shop doing payouts and came back the next day. They said I was too late, payouts were day of only. So I missed out on 320 bucks worth of crap. Which is ok, I don't usually redeem any winnings any more, but I was a little disappointed then as I had promised some friends a few requested discs.
I would have asked, before leaving.
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2019, 08:36 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Tuna View Post
I think the PDGA should indicate that it is the TD's discretion what to do with dropout fees. That way TDs know how to handle it & players have evidence that it is TDs decision.

Our club keeps the entry fee in the purse for the division the drop-out would have played.
Do they really need to be explicit about it? Anything that isn't specifically covered by PDGA rule or policy at an event is left to TD discretion by default, no? I mean, there's no PDGA-mandated start time for a tournament...the TD gets to decide if round 1 starts at 9:00 or 9:30 or 10:00. There's no need for a PDGA rule that states start times are up to the TD, it's just assumed to be the case. This seems similar to me. The PDGA has no stated policy or position, therefore the TD can do as he/she sees fit. No need for further definition.

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Old 10-24-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Do they really need to be explicit about it?
Need? No. I just think it would be helpful to have a written rule that covers this since it involves money/payout. Its more of a CYA move so everyone knows protocol.

I say this with the understanding that not all players know/understand the rules and need to be told what to do. Again, shouldn't be necessary, but you know how people can be...

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Old 10-24-2019, 01:46 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Does there need to be a rule? I do not think so, as I am for less rules in regards to running sanctioned events.

The PDGA mandating minute things while TDs volunteer their time seems a bit of an overreach considering they are getting paid regardless of how the event is run. I do understand the PDGA needing to organize the basic structure of events for consistency, but maybe let loose a little on the ends.

Is there reason to make a rule? Maybe - At this particular event the course owner puts in an extraordinary amount of time and finances. I believe it would have been a deserved gesture / reward to give the forfeited entry fees to the course owner.

If the TD decided to give 50% or 100% of the forfeited entry fees to the owner and some players objected or considered it a shady practice, it would be nice to have a policy / rule to back up the TDs decision. IMO a TDs reputation could get dragged through the mud for something like this, even if unwarranted, and turn many players away in the future.

The feedback here has been great, very eye opening to be honest.
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:13 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
If the TD decided to give 50% or 100% of the forfeited entry fees to the owner and some players objected or considered it a shady practice, it would be nice to have a policy / rule to back up the TDs decision. IMO a TDs reputation could get dragged through the mud for something like this, even if unwarranted, and turn many players away in the future.
I don't see where a PDGA policy would make a difference in the situation you present. Whiners that take exception to the TD using his discretion with the forfeited entry fees will still do so whether there's a written PDGA policy that states "TD's discretion" or not. Because what they're disagreeing with is what the TD chose to do, not whether he had the authority to do it.

So really, the only thing that would appease them is a PDGA rule that dictated where the forfeited entries go, assuming of course that where the funds go is where they want them to go (imagine the PDGA said it goes to tournament expenses and the whiners want it in the MPO payout).

I don't want to see the PDGA dictating this level of detail to tournament directors, nor do I think that a stated policy that such decisions are entirely up to the TD makes any difference at all since such a policy is effectively the same as having no policy at all.
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:29 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
I don't see where a PDGA policy would make a difference in the situation you present. Whiners that take exception to the TD using his discretion with the forfeited entry fees will still do so whether there's a written PDGA policy that states "TD's discretion" or not. Because what they're disagreeing with is what the TD chose to do, not whether he had the authority to do it.

So really, the only thing that would appease them is a PDGA rule that dictated where the forfeited entries go, assuming of course that where the funds go is where they want them to go (imagine the PDGA said it goes to tournament expenses and the whiners want it in the MPO payout).

I don't want to see the PDGA dictating this level of detail to tournament directors, nor do I think that a stated policy that such decisions are entirely up to the TD makes any difference at all since such a policy is effectively the same as having no policy at all.
Good points and I agree as I stated earlier with advocating for less PDGA mandating.

In this case and the future, I have been convinced that the TD just needs to do what they think is right and let any negative responses fade.

In this particular event, with the quality of people who attended and their knowledge of the course owner, I do not think but maybe a couple would have objected - possibly even none. I think the complainers' in DG reflect the general population to a degree - there are always a few A'Holes.
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  #20  
Old 10-24-2019, 07:44 PM
zontar zontar is offline
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having put on a ton of bike races, I don't think those fees going to "dinner with the wifey" are really out of line. personally, I've spent plenty of my OWN money putting on events, so having an extra $15, $30, $60 is nothing considering the incredible amount of time and work that goes into most events.....

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