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Old 02-25-2021, 04:27 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Default Disc lands on steep slope and relief

There are a couple of holes at Saddle Hills with really steep slopes, one is up hill (#4) and one is down hill (#15).

If your disc ends up on the slope in a position where it's not possible to have safe footing to make a throw, are you allowed to take relief away from the pin to a position where you can get decent footing? And no penalty stroke?

I read 803.02 and it seems to imply this would be acceptable.
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:32 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
There are a couple of holes at Saddle Hills with really steep slopes, one is up hill (#4) and one is down hill (#15).

If your disc ends up on the slope in a position where it's not possible to have safe footing to make a throw, are you allowed to take relief away from the pin to a position where you can get decent footing? And no penalty stroke?

I read 803.02 and it seems to imply this would be acceptable.
Choosing to take relief when inbounds is a penalty if it's not a specially marked area that provides relief. In the case of holes with steep banks, such as creek beds, TDs are encouraged to mark or declare free/casual relief areas so players are not penalized other than distance when needing to take relief.

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Old 02-25-2021, 05:39 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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I think a TD can designate areas without marking them.
For example, if your disc is in a thorn bush you may take relief back on the lie to the first clear spot.
So the TD should be able to say, if your disc is on the hole 4 or 15 slopes, AND you can't get a safe stance, move back on the line until your footing is safe and throw from there.

One of the rules I'd like to copy from ball golf is the unplayable lie rule. The player can determine their lie is unplayable and move back along the line to a playable spot with one stroke penalty. (it might be limited to some club lengths....I don't recall). Disc in a fairway puddle and you don't want to stand in the puddle? Unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back on the line until you aren't standing in the water. Disc under a tree, unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back......

Maybe include a requirement that the card must agree it is unplayable.

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Old 02-25-2021, 05:55 PM
Ahildy13 Ahildy13 is offline
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Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post

One of the rules I'd like to copy from ball golf is the unplayable lie rule. The player can determine their lie is unplayable and move back along the line to a playable spot with one stroke penalty. (it might be limited to some club lengths....I don't recall). Disc in a fairway puddle and you don't want to stand in the puddle? Unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back on the line until you aren't standing in the water. Disc under a tree, unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back......

Maybe include a requirement that the card must agree it is unplayable.
In regards to puddles, I think they already fall under casual water and you can take free relief backwards
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
One of the rules I'd like to copy from ball golf is the unplayable lie rule. The player can determine their lie is unplayable and move back along the line to a playable spot with one stroke penalty. (it might be limited to some club lengths....I don't recall). Disc in a fairway puddle and you don't want to stand in the puddle? Unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back on the line until you aren't standing in the water. Disc under a tree, unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back......

Maybe include a requirement that the card must agree it is unplayable.
That would be 803.02.D https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-...isc-golf/80302

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Old 02-26-2021, 10:11 AM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Thanks! I've not played a tournament (ever) or obviously at this course so I don't know how they've addressed it.

Our casual rounds are pretty lenient on "playing your lie", but I want to know/understand the rules when I finally play a tournament.
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Old 02-26-2021, 10:22 AM
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I was thinking that in 8.03.02.B., a steep slope would qualify as a large solid object.

I suppose a TD would either identify the area as OB or designate it as acceptable for casual relief and the card would have to agree to the new lie.

Referring to 8.03.02:

A. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief.

B. If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

C. A player who takes relief other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:25 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
There are a couple of holes at Saddle Hills with really steep slopes, one is up hill (#4) and one is down hill (#15).

If your disc ends up on the slope in a position where it's not possible to have safe footing to make a throw, are you allowed to take relief away from the pin to a position where you can get decent footing? And no penalty stroke?

I read 803.02 and it seems to imply this would be acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Choosing to take relief when inbounds is a penalty if it's not a specially marked area that provides relief. In the case of holes with steep banks, such as creek beds, TDs are encouraged to mark or declare free/casual relief areas so players are not penalized other than distance when needing to take relief.
Nope. Chuck is right. Inbounds on the ground ("safe") with no object in your way is NOT a situation where you can take relief without penalty, unless the TD of the event has designated otherwise specifically. But in general no. The old "safe footing" issue is a common thought for newer players. But you don't have a right to stand (common meaning). The rulebook calls a "stance" clearly defined by ability to be supported by the playing surface and allowing a supporting point on the lie. NOT a foot (necessarily) -- a supporting point. If you can kneel, lie down, slide to the side and put a hand down on the lie, etc., then you can take a legal stance (rulebook meaning) right there.

Think about it. If you played for any length of time you've kneeled, and even sometimes lain down to make a throw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
I think a TD can designate areas without marking them.
For example, if your disc is in a thorn bush you may take relief back on the lie to the first clear spot.
So the TD should be able to say, if your disc is on the hole 4 or 15 slopes, AND you can't get a safe stance, move back on the line until your footing is safe and throw from there.

One of the rules I'd like to copy from ball golf is the unplayable lie rule. The player can determine their lie is unplayable and move back along the line to a playable spot with one stroke penalty. (it might be limited to some club lengths....I don't recall). Disc in a fairway puddle and you don't want to stand in the puddle? Unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back on the line until you aren't standing in the water. Disc under a tree, unplayable lie, one throw penalty, move back......

Maybe include a requirement that the card must agree it is unplayable.
Bill you don't know the history of the sport, so be advised. There was once a rule about "unplayable lie" in the disc golf rulebook. It was replaced (and I believe appropriately so) with first, the optional re-throw, and now, abandoned throw rule. SO any attempt to "equate" the current PDGA rulebook with the unplayable ball golf rule, IMHO, has already been dealt with by the RC.

Again -- the player may not be able to physically stand, but he might be able to take a legal stance, simply by lying down on the ground on the lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
I was thinking that in 8.03.02.B., a steep slope would qualify as a large solid object.

I suppose a TD would either identify the area as OB or designate it as acceptable for casual relief and the card would have to agree to the new lie.

Referring to 8.03.02:

A. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief.

B. If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

C. A player who takes relief other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.
There is absolutely ZERO chance that the Rules Committee interprets any "steep slope" as a "large solid object" qualifying for relief under that 803.02 A.

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Old 03-02-2021, 04:54 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Bill you don't know the history of the sport.
True. Totally agree. I post what I think is right, especially regarding rules, and look for folks like you to give us the right information. Some PDGA rules seem kind of greyish...and open to discussion. I learn something new almost every day.

Thank you...

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Old 03-02-2021, 06:20 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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...
There is absolutely ZERO chance that the Rules Committee interprets any "steep slope" as a "large solid object" qualifying for relief under that 803.02 A.
The RC is not part of the process for making rulings. The group decides, and if one of the players wants to appeal, the thrower can play a provisional (if the lie is different) and the group asks the TD. Done, final.

Many things depend on local conditions and first-hand knowledge. These can't be decided by the RC later.

There isn't any backroom where the RC keeps more-complete definitions of terms. What's in the rules is all you get. That way, everyone gets the same rules.
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