#11  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:46 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
A Mixed Profession Open (MPO) player said a course was TOO TECHNICAL? Sounds like a whiner. I'm MA3 (Recreational) and I've played technical courses. They can be annoying when you constantly hit trees or are in bushes...but they also teach/require planned shots, you can't just throw and expect something good.

I wonder if the player had an ulterior motive or really just wants wide-open courses.
And if they want a bomber course—you can only work with what you have.

They certainly are not obligated to play the course, but it was a 9 bumped to 18. I’m guessing they were familiar with the 9 and should have had an idea what the 18 might be like.

Too technical is a lame excuse.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2021, 07:17 PM
zontar zontar is offline
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too technical? bring it on!

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  #13  
Old 04-13-2021, 10:27 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
They certainly are not obligated to play the course, but it was a 9 bumped to 18. I’m guessing they were familiar with the 9 and should have had an idea what the 18 might be like.
It was a complete pull-up and re-design. The previous course had 9 holes on 5 acres, and while that was fine because it was a beginner course, there were an additional 10 acres or so that the city made available for the redesign. It's still a short course, but none of the MPOs who withdrew had ever played any of the holes before.

Also, I do not fault anyone for not wanting to play a technical course and did not mean to disparage any of them. I know a few of the ones who withdrew and they are not "whiners," they just didn't want to play a course that they deemed too technical. As I said, I didn't just want to dismiss that, but the tournament did fill quickly so it does not appear to be much of an issue. Repeat business will be the test. The players who did well were very complimentary of the course, and that was good to hear, but I don't want to put much weight in that either.

One example of what I am thinking of changing is hole 5,, which has a narrow fairway but is just a straight, 240ish hole. There is OB, but it takes a really bad shot to get there and because it's basically a must birdie hole, I was thinking of shortening it into a 180ish dead straight ace run with a narrow fairway. It'll still be a must birdie hole but might be a little more fun for casual play.
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Old 04-13-2021, 10:57 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
...

One example of what I am thinking of changing is hole 5,, which has a narrow fairway but is just a straight, 240ish hole. There is OB, but it takes a really bad shot to get there and because it's basically a must birdie hole, I was thinking of shortening it into a 180ish dead straight ace run with a narrow fairway. It'll still be a must birdie hole but might be a little more fun for casual play.
Call it a par 2 for MPO. That will add a whole 'nother layer of psychological terror.

If the fairway is like a corridor, make the distance to the basket (or to the end of the corridor) 8 or 9 times the width to get good scoring spread across a range of skill levels.

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Old 04-14-2021, 02:31 AM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
It was a complete pull-up and re-design. The previous course had 9 holes on 5 acres, and while that was fine because it was a beginner course, there were an additional 10 acres or so that the city made available for the redesign. It's still a short course, but none of the MPOs who withdrew had ever played any of the holes before.

Also, I do not fault anyone for not wanting to play a technical course and did not mean to disparage any of them. I know a few of the ones who withdrew and they are not "whiners," they just didn't want to play a course that they deemed too technical. As I said, I didn't just want to dismiss that, but the tournament did fill quickly so it does not appear to be much of an issue. Repeat business will be the test. The players who did well were very complimentary of the course, and that was good to hear, but I don't want to put much weight in that either.

One example of what I am thinking of changing is hole 5,, which has a narrow fairway but is just a straight, 240ish hole. There is OB, but it takes a really bad shot to get there and because it's basically a must birdie hole, I was thinking of shortening it into a 180ish dead straight ace run with a narrow fairway. It'll still be a must birdie hole but might be a little more fun for casual play.

How would you like the question to be answered?

Since it filled, it is less of an issue. But, I am on the side of support the sport and those that are doing something to improve it. New courses? Or updates, or course improvements? You show up to show your support. Particularly if you signed up.

With the current growth and demand, it really is a minor thing, but it is not nothing to me.

And yes, too technical is a bit whiney IMO, particularly if one has not played the course. It is one thing to say that the corridor is too tight for the length. Or a tree in the middle of a fairway should be chopped. I heard it’s too technical? You will never please someone like that.
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Old 04-14-2021, 07:02 AM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is online now
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There is a lot to consider. Are the gaps fair yet challenging? Fair as in not just having a wall of trees to throw through and hope to get lucky.

Then you have the statistics to look at. Are there not enough birdies on some holes or too many? I personally like to see 15-30% of a MPO field make birdie on the holes. Even 10% can be fine though if it's actually fairly designed and luck is not a major factor.

Look at those holes that had too many or too few birdies and try and move the basket if possible to help make it more difficult or remove trees/branches if needed to help make birdie possible.
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Old 04-14-2021, 07:38 AM
autocrosscrx autocrosscrx is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
How would you like the question to be answered?

Since it filled, it is less of an issue. But, I am on the side of support the sport and those that are doing something to improve it. New courses? Or updates, or course improvements? You show up to show your support. Particularly if you signed up.

With the current growth and demand, it really is a minor thing, but it is not nothing to me.

And yes, too technical is a bit whiney IMO, particularly if one has not played the course. It is one thing to say that the corridor is too tight for the length. Or a tree in the middle of a fairway should be chopped. I heard it’s too technical? You will never please someone like that.
"Too technical" also might be the politically correct answer. When in the company of volunteers and designers, I describe the course that I hate as too technical.
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Old 04-14-2021, 08:33 AM
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Discette Discette is offline
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"Too technical" also might be the politically correct answer. When in the company of volunteers and designers, I describe the course that I hate as too technical.

Being polite, like when you see a really ugly baby...



"The baby looks just like you!"

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Old 04-14-2021, 10:01 AM
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I don't know if you can answer the question from the hole results. The sample sizes are small (particularly MPO), the ratings spreads aren't shown (sometimes those divisions include players who, by rating, should be elsewhere, and they skew the numbers), and you can't tell whether the scoring spreads reflect skill, or luck.

But at least they don't show boring holes -- holes with such a higher percentage of the same result that they don't matter. Even where they seem to show it for one division, they don't for the other.
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:47 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by autocrosscrx View Post
"Too technical" also might be the politically correct answer. When in the company of volunteers and designers, I describe the course that I hate as too technical.
Speaking as just one designer, I'd ask you to not be so polite. I want real feedback. Chances are, you'll hate the same things I do (but I had to leave because of other constraints). Or, if you do see something I didn't, I'll change it and take credit for the improvement.

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