#91  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:07 PM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 23.7
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 14,594
Niced 2,458 Times in 1,162 Posts
Default

Because fivesomes are the norm around here, I consider foursomes a perk. I hate to lose it.....particularly since I wouldn't have signed up in the first place, had I known.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:43 PM
PMantle's Avatar
PMantle PMantle is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Alexandria, La.
Years Playing: 6.6
Courses Played: 48
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 4,829
Niced 690 Times in 482 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
3) Put the juniors AHEAD of the mpo players. If the juniors are playing too slow, I'm sure someone from the mpo division would speak up. And remember..they would have to be playing VERY slow for the mpo players to say something. lol..
This is gold.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 11-05-2018, 01:42 PM
biscoe biscoe is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 23.8
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 6,063
Niced 1,094 Times in 520 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Because fivesomes are the norm around here, I consider foursomes a perk. I hate to lose it.....particularly since I wouldn't have signed up in the first place, had I known.
Fivesomes were the norm here too back in the 90's. One year on the way to PawPaw I realized I was simply dreading sitting around and waiting all day in fivesomes and decided not to run them any more. Now they are with a few exceptions a thing of the past in Virginia. Events which switch things up to let more people in suck- penalize the players who did everything right to let in the slackers.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:32 PM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 23.7
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 14,594
Niced 2,458 Times in 1,162 Posts
Default

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of events that switch things up. If they start with fivesomes from the first announcement, it's caveat emptor.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:57 PM
teemkey's Avatar
teemkey teemkey is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Courses Played: 39
Posts: 2,361
Niced 351 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Given that slow play is expected in certain divisions, one solution would be to run 2-day B/C tournaments where the C-tier is composed of those known slow divisions. While the B-tier plays the typical two round Saturday, one round Sunday, the C-tier plays one round each day.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 11-05-2018, 03:21 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.2
Courses Played: 144
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,032
Niced 2,508 Times in 1,055 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teemkey View Post
Given that slow play is expected in certain divisions, one solution would be to run 2-day B/C tournaments where the C-tier is composed of those known slow divisions. While the B-tier plays the typical two round Saturday, one round Sunday, the C-tier plays one round each day.
How would that work if you have one course? At least in terms of speeding things up?

I understand the idea of not having the slow players out there for two full rounds, but if they're sharing the same course as the others, their absence is really only going to affect the round they're not playing. And in a two-day event, are folks as concerned about the first day moving swiftly and/or ending reasonably early? Because there's the added benefit, schedule-wise, of once the second round is over, everyone can leave the course. No need to hang around for awards or silly side games or what-have-you (the stuff that can really drag out the day, IMO).

I think that format is a good idea if you have multiple courses for the event. Or if the slower playing divisions are your juniors and seniors who benefit from single round days for either attention-span or physical energy reasons. But as a means of increasing the pace of the event overall, I'm not sure how much difference it really would make.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 11-05-2018, 04:06 PM
teemkey's Avatar
teemkey teemkey is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Courses Played: 39
Posts: 2,361
Niced 351 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
How would that work if you have one course? At least in terms of speeding things up?

I understand the idea of not having the slow players out there for two full rounds, but if they're sharing the same course as the others, their absence is really only going to affect the round they're not playing. And in a two-day event, are folks as concerned about the first day moving swiftly and/or ending reasonably early? Because there's the added benefit, schedule-wise, of once the second round is over, everyone can leave the course. No need to hang around for awards or silly side games or what-have-you (the stuff that can really drag out the day, IMO).

I think that format is a good idea if you have multiple courses for the event. Or if the slower playing divisions are your juniors and seniors who benefit from single round days for either attention-span or physical energy reasons. But as a means of increasing the pace of the event overall, I'm not sure how much difference it really would make.
As I understand the OP, the real problem is starting the 2nd round on time. This scheme eliminates the TD's concern that the slower groups need a full hour for lunch. Further, the B-tier awards ceremony isn't held up waiting for the slow groups on Sunday.

Of course this would be better with two courses, but the OP has stated he's the only TD, so unless he has access to a facility with two courses on site, that's not a realistic possibility. Even with one course, another means of speeding play for the faster groups is to encourage the C-tier players to let B-tier groups play through if they are clearly holding up speed of play. The PDGA competition rules *might* be interpreted to allow this.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 11-05-2018, 04:33 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.2
Courses Played: 144
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,032
Niced 2,508 Times in 1,055 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teemkey View Post
As I understand the OP, the real problem is starting the 2nd round on time. This scheme eliminates the TD's concern that the slower groups need a full hour for lunch. Further, the B-tier awards ceremony isn't held up waiting for the slow groups on Sunday.

Of course this would be better with two courses, but the OP has stated he's the only TD, so unless he has access to a facility with two courses on site, that's not a realistic possibility. Even with one course, another means of speeding play for the faster groups is to encourage the C-tier players to let B-tier groups play through if they are clearly holding up speed of play. The PDGA competition rules *might* be interpreted to allow this.
I don't think there's any way that one could interpret the rules to allow for playing through just because one group is playing a higher tiered event than another. If they're sharing the course, they're all in the same event and the rules apply the same as ever. If we're going to interpret a Pro B-tier/Am C-tier event as two separate tournaments being played on the same course at the same time, then why stop there? Why not treat every division within the tournament as its own entity, and allow for MA1s to play through MA50s or MPOs to play through FA2?

Part of the problem with the OP's situation is that the slow card was unexpected. Seems to me that if such an issue is expected, then other steps could be taken to remedy or avoid it before changing the format of the tournament significantly (since it sounds as though this was a one-day event).
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 11-06-2018, 03:45 AM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 12.6
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,037
Niced 2,179 Times in 1,361 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
In my last tournament, I had some juniors whose MA40 parents were playing with them in a group of 5: two parents, three kids. The tournament was spread out over two courses with plenty of room between groups. The start was at 9:30 and by 12:15, everyone except the junior/parent group was finished. The junior/parent group turned in their card at 1:20 p.m. I was not a happy TD.

My tournament is at a course that is in a rural area and out-of-towners, who make up about 2/3 of every tournament, must travel for 1.5 to 2 hours to get to it and I like to finish up and give everyone plenty of time to grab a meal and get home. This also explains why I don't start earlier: so everyone can get to the tourney without having to leave home too early.

In any event, I am tossing around the idea of a scorecard turn-in deadline for both rounds at three hours. I will put the responsibility on any group that is being held up to report the slow group so that the hold up can be addressed before it becomes a problem.

Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
Slower is one thing. An extra hour, on this course, on that day, even with a fivesome, was far too long. After the round, I had a discussion with one of the parents and the same group turned in their cards about middle of the pack for the second round. There was really no excuse for it. And by the same reasoning - that a TD should expect a fivesome to be slower and have to live with it - any length of time could be justified. If a four person group should finish in 3 hours, there's no good reason for an additional player to add an hour.

On the other hand, I have been behind groups of slow juniors before. That was almost enough to make me quit the tournament. That tournament was held up for almost an hour as well. I have also been behind the MPO players who are typically the slowest, after the juniors.

During the last tournament I attended, a fundraiser at which I volunteered and did not play, I watched different groups to try to get an idea of what was causing slow play. There were routine violations of the 30 second rule with many players failing to prepare to throw in any sort of timely fashion. I don't think the 30 second rule works; no one ever attempts to enforce it. It seems a scorecard deadline would get people to "watch the clock" a little. At the very least, it would be an enforceable measure, up to the TD, not requiring player enforcement or cooperation.

It seems the biggest problem might be having enough rule officials to address slow groups during play. But it might be that the only thing that Group A would need to do to prevent Group B from causing them to miss the deadline would be to report the slows group as soon as Group A caught up to them.
I still fail to see a real player problem. If we do some rudimentary math here... you say the second to last card came in at 165min(2hr 45min) as a foursome. If you added a fifth person to that card maintaining the same avg pace @41.25min/player, it would be 206.25min(3hr 26min) for the round. You say the five some took 230min(3hr 50min) to complete the round, which is really only 23.75 minutes off that pace. IMO the fivesome was on a reasonable pace considering it had 3 juniors you can expect to be taking 1.5 strokes x SSA which could account for approximately an extra 30 minutes, and in the realm of that extra 23.75 minutes.


Given your callus responses to everyone in this thread, I can only imagine how that conversation in between the rounds must have gone with those juniors/parents when you were already in a crabby mood. They were probably playing speed golf that second round in fear of TD Doofensmirtz's wrath.

In lieu of officials, maybe you could hand out stop watches to every player? But then who is watching for stance and marking violations? But you will likely argue that nobody calls those either, and so speed of play trumps, right? IMO it's hard to judge 30 seconds without watching a clock, plus the player is allowed a "reasonable" amount of time to arrive to the lie and be free and clear of distractions.

Another alternative that has not been suggested yet, would be shortening the number of holes/round. You only need 13 holes for a round to count in ratings. Or you could just do 1 round.

Reply With Quote
 

  #100  
Old 11-06-2018, 09:01 AM
kenjiac's Avatar
kenjiac kenjiac is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Colonie NY
Years Playing: 11.6
Courses Played: 99
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 963
Niced 131 Times in 78 Posts
Default

I agree with sidewinder here the problem was not the players. The TD created the problem by making a 5some with slower division players when there was room on the course. If there was empty holes there was no need for a 5some. 4some at most or possibly letting the Jrs play as a 3some. He stated they had tourney experince so the 3some of Jrs should be versed in tourney play enough to play alone.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
speed-of-play OB? duckychucky Rules Questions & Discussion 14 05-14-2013 12:43 PM
Speed Golf Tournament cooker Tournaments & Leagues 11 11-08-2010 12:31 PM
Charlotte area mega courses - speed play? superberry General Disc Golf Chat 22 11-05-2010 10:31 PM
Ever play in a tournament? G Bud General Disc Golf Chat 51 03-22-2010 10:40 PM
How many different ways to play? sillybizz General Disc Golf Chat 31 12-04-2009 05:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.