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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3511  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:43 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
Once again, no. The par doesn't change on the gold tee just because you don't want to play from that tee. And, get this, the par stays the same even if someone steals the tee sign. The sign isn't what makes the hole a par 5, it's just one of the things on which the par is recorded.
You can protest all you want but the USGA, Golf Architects and PMantle's post above shows that different pars are assigned for different skill levels. It's especially important for calculating your score cap using Equitable Stroke Control when reporting your scores for handicaps after you play a different set of tees than your skill level.
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  #3512  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
You can protest all you want but the USGA, Golf Architects and PMantle's post above shows that different pars are assigned for different skill levels. It's especially important for calculating your score cap using Equitable Stroke Control when reporting your scores for handicaps after you play a different set of tees than your skill level.
You're confusing course rating and slope with par. Those are the only things used in calculating your handicap.

It's very rare for a course to assign different pars for different skill levels, they almost always adjust the difficult by the distance of the tee box. About the only time you see it happen is for an older course with a par 5 where they simply lack the room for a gold par 5 distance, so they use a shorter distance and call it a par 4. Occasionally you will also see it for ladies tees if the layout of the hole is such they can't fit an appropriate teebox.

The idea that just re-labeling par for different skill levels is common practice in golf is complete bunk.
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  #3513  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
You're confusing course rating and slope with par. Those are the only things used in calculating your handicap.

It's very rare for a course to assign different pars for different skill levels, they almost always adjust the difficult by the distance of the tee box. About the only time you see it happen is for an older course with a par 5 where they simply lack the room for a gold par 5 distance, so they use a shorter distance and call it a par 4. Occasionally you will also see it for ladies tees if the layout of the hole is such they can't fit an appropriate teebox.

The idea that just re-labeling par for different skill levels is common practice in golf is complete bunk.
The point here is that par for a single combination of tee to green will have different hole indexes for handicapping and resulting unpublished pars depending on which set of tees that tee to green combination is part of. While it's true that Gold Par is for gold level players and doesn't change on the sign regardless who is playing it, the hole index for handicapping that hole will be different for different skill levels playing those gold tees when submitting their score for handicapping. You just don't see it since the calculations are in the background. In some cases, those averages will round off to the same par and in other cases it will be a one-stroke different par if it were printed on the scorecard or tee sign.

Disc golf does not have the luxury of 3 or 4 tees for specific skill level like ball golf on most courses and players of a wider skill range will play the same set of tees on a regular basis. A reasonable rule of thumb among course designers is the imputed par for red level players playing a legit gold tee hole is to mentally add one to the posted par, and likewise, gold level players playing a legit red tee should mentally consider their par as one less than what's posted. Thus, there many legitimate imputed par 2s for gold level players playing the occasional red level course or at least a few red level holes that remain on a course played in tournaments.
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  #3514  
Old 01-25-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post

Disc golf does not have the luxury of 3 or 4 tees for specific skill level like ball golf on most courses and players of a wider skill range will play the same set of tees on a regular basis.
And if it did, this thread would be 2 pages long.

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  #3515  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:05 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
...

The idea that just re-labeling par for different skill levels is common practice in golf is complete bunk.
OK, but does that mean disc golf can't do it?
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  #3516  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:42 PM
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Noill Noill is offline
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just that it probably shouldn't...

my opinion... and I'm just a mod on a dg website so......
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  #3517  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The point here is that par for a single combination of tee to green will have different hole indexes. . .
Never mind that you have been making utterly false assertions to support that "point" for multiple pages now.

Next thing we know, you'll be claiming that the loss of a disc is itself a penalty and that there is, therefore, no need to assess penalty throws!

It will be a sad day for disc golf if you are ever allowed near any sort of rules committee.
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  #3518  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:20 PM
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...isn't he already on the rules committee?


nvermind I thought you quoted Steve, lol.

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 01-25-2019 at 09:24 PM.
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  #3519  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
Never mind that you have been making utterly false assertions to support that "point" for multiple pages now.

Next thing we know, you'll be claiming that the loss of a disc is itself a penalty and that there is, therefore, no need to assess penalty throws!

It will be a sad day for disc golf if you are ever allowed near any sort of rules committee.
Doof certainly applies in your comments despite the evidence not just provided by me. And yes, one second you have a disc, and several seconds later you don't. Sounds like enough penalty to me, especially for rec players.
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  #3520  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:54 PM
DG_player DG_player is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
While it's true that Gold Par is for gold level players and doesn't change on the sign regardless who is playing it, the hole index for handicapping that hole will be different for different skill levels playing those gold tees when submitting their score for handicapping. You just don't see it since the calculations are in the background. In some cases, those averages will round off to the same par and in other cases it will be a one-stroke different par if it were printed on the scorecard or tee sign.
That's factually incorrect. Regardless of your skill level or current handicap, your handicap is calculated based on the index and slope for that particular set of tees. If a scratch golfer and a duffer play together from the gold tees, their handicaps are both calculated off of the course rating and slope for that set of tees. That's the whole purpose of the handicapping system, so people of different skill levels can play each other fairly. If there were multiple sets it wouldn't work and wouldn't be an effective way to compare skill levels.

The only time par ever gets factored in, is to calculate the maximum score you can record on a hole. If you are a very low handicap, I think 10 or under, you're limited to double bogey. If you're above that it's just a number. For instance I think the most i could card on a given hole with my handicap was an 8.

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