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Old 07-24-2018, 01:48 PM
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Default Proper penalty

At a local tournament recently, a three-man scorecard was turned in with a scoring error - one of the totals, for Player A, was incorrect because it indicated one more throw than was taken during that round by Player A. This was the final round and resulted in Player A not cashing. The immediate beneficiary was Player B, who moved past Player A by one throw and into the last payout place.

When player A found out about it, he conferred with his card mates. Then Player B approached the TD and told the TD that he had intentionally changed the total on the scorecard to reflect the incorrect total.

So, what is the appropriate penalty, and for whom, in the following scenarios:

SCENARIO 1:

Player B totaled the scorecards, intentionally turning in the incorrect score for Player A. Player A trusted Player B to total the scorecard correctly and did not check the scorecard before it was turned in.

SCENARIO 2:

Player C totaled the scorecard and handed it to Player B to turn it in and Player B erased the correct total and replaced it with the correct total. Player A did not check the card before it was turned in.

SCENARIO 3:

Same as Scenario 2, but Player A checked the scorecard before Player B was sent to turn in the card.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:04 PM
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All this for last cash?
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:07 PM
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If player A did not check the scorecard, he shares some blame.

If he checked it and it was changed afterwards, I'd be inclined to restore his score. Even though he could have escorted the card back to HQ.

Player B is DQ'd for life in all scenarios.

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Old 07-24-2018, 02:19 PM
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If Player B actually erased Player A's score, and wrote in a different score... that's about as low as pencil whipping gets.

Player B should be tied to the most often hit tree on the course... as bark protection.
He should remain tied to said tree until such time his stench becomes too overpowering to deal with.

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Old 07-24-2018, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
If player A did not check the scorecard, he shares some blame.
My thoughts too for Scenario 1. For 2, I'm not so sure. For 3, I think A's score should be restored. With respect to Scenario 2, I think it would not have made a difference, the total was going to be erased and changed anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
If he checked it and it was changed afterwards, I'd be inclined to restore his score. Even though he could have escorted the card back to HQ.
Can't disagree, but it's hard for me to think a TD should require everyone to escort the card to HQ to prevent this kind of cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Player B is DQ'd for life in all scenarios.
As I read the rule book (Section 3.03(A) of the Competition Manual), a DQ is at the discretion of the TD in this instance. Assuming no DQ, is there any other appropriate penalty under the rules? It doesn't look like any other penalty fits except a courtesy warning for unsportsmanlike conduct or a warning of disqualification under 3.03(A) of the competition manual.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:06 PM
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IMO, in all 3 scenarios Player B is disqualified from the tournament. Also would have no problem of this being clearly stated right before doing payouts to let everyone know what transpired.

I believe in scenario #1 and #2 Player A shares the blame for not checking the card. Correct his/her scorecard and then add the 2 stroke penalty.

In scenario #3 I would agree with restoring Player A's score without penalty.

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Old 07-24-2018, 03:07 PM
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Since B changed the score in all scenarios, A's score should be restored and B DQ'd and reported to the PDGA for sanctioning.

The TD should take A to church for a public shaming lecture under scenarios 1 & 3.

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Old 07-24-2018, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
If player A did not check the scorecard, he shares some blame.

If he checked it and it was changed afterwards, I'd be inclined to restore his score. Even though he could have escorted the card back to HQ.

Player B is DQ'd for life in all scenarios.
Very Salient points David.

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Old 07-24-2018, 06:00 PM
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Very Salient points David.
Are you cursing me?

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Old 07-24-2018, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
My thoughts too for Scenario 1. For 2, I'm not so sure. For 3, I think A's score should be restored. With respect to Scenario 2, I think it would not have made a difference, the total was going to be erased and changed anyway.



Can't disagree, but it's hard for me to think a TD should require everyone to escort the card to HQ to prevent this kind of cheating.



As I read the rule book (Section 3.03(A) of the Competition Manual), a DQ is at the discretion of the TD in this instance. Assuming no DQ, is there any other appropriate penalty under the rules? It doesn't look like any other penalty fits except a courtesy warning for unsportsmanlike conduct or a warning of disqualification under 3.03(A) of the competition manual.
My solution was more "fairness" than strictly by the book.

By the book, players are responsible for their card being turned in correctly, and if they don't all escort it back and turn it in together, they run this risk. But, practically speaking, we're not going to do that. I'm not sure the rules allow a TD to restore a score that was turned in incorrectly.....but I'd do it, anyway.

Similarly, DQ isn't quite in order---the event is over---and you can't ban someone from future events. I guess you could report him to the PDGA, and let them deal with it. But I'd make every attempt to make him persona non grata at my future events.

As well as make sure B's reputation remained mud for as long as I could.

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