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Old 11-20-2018, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoakimBL View Post
Krupica quoted the exact rulle that says you are wrong. That is where it says it. Try reading it again. And the again. Repeat until you understand
What part of this...


Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
It's 30 seconds for his turn to throw, not 30 seconds from the time the group finishes teeing off.

811.F.5. Missed Hole Due to Late Arrival or Absence. If a player is not present to
throw when they are next in the throwing order, and remains absent for at
least 30 seconds,
the player does not make any more throws on the hole.
The player’s score for the hole is par plus four.
Is different than what I said here?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post


If he was close enough to walk up and throw before another 30sec was counted,
Like I said above, at worst its a courtesy violation for throwing out of order. Now if he was unable to make a throw in the 30sec allotted, then he gets par+4... The rule book does not say you must be standing on the teepad, it just says present and defers to the 30sec rule.
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Last edited by brutalbrutus; 11-20-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:57 PM
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But the consequence is not a courtesy warning. It is "the player does not make any more throws on the hole.
The player’s score for the hole is par plus four."

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Old 11-20-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
But the consequence is not a courtesy warning. It is "the player does not make any more throws on the hole.
The player’s score for the hole is par plus four."
Yes... AFTER 30sec has passed... This is just another example of two different rules conflicting with each other. There either should not be the rule you quoted in the rule book, or the rule in the competition manual needs to be changed to reflect what it says in the rule book. The finished teeing part of the rule in the competition manual is the hang up here.

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 11-20-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:18 PM
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If the competition manual said you were absent once your time to throw has passed, I wouldn't have an argument but all it says is "completed holes or holes where the group has finished teeing off." It doesn't say anything about teeing order. SO which rule are we supposed to take first?
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Yes... AFTER 30sec has passed... This is just another example of two different rules conflicting with each other. There either should not be the rule you quoted in the rule book, or the rule in the competition manual needs to be changed to reflect what it says in the rule book. The finished teeing part of the rule in the competition manual is the hang up here.
No, this is you conflicting two rules that dont belong together. The rule krupicka quoted is the rule for this specific situation because that is what they named the rule.

811.F.5. Missed Hole Due to Late Arrival or Absence.

Dragging the teeing out of order rule into this argument just adds dirt to some crystal clear water. They can't tee out of order because rule 811.F.5 already declared the hole over for the late person once they missed their turn, they are done par + four.

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Old 11-20-2018, 02:58 PM
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Then they need to change the competition manual to reflect that. Otherwise, the "finished teeing off" part leaves it open to interpretation. When I read that part, it makes me think one can still teeoff regardless off teeing order.

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 11-20-2018 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Then they need to change the competition manual to reflect that. Otherwise, the "finished teeing off" part leaves it open to interpretation. When I read that part, it makes me think one can still teeoff regardless off teeing order.
Quote:
If a player is not present to
throw when they are next in the throwing order, and remains absent for at
least 30 seconds
I'm not sure how that's confusing for you. This rule specifically states to take the throwing order into account, and start the 30 second timer. You're trying to bring in another rule saying that in some cases players can throw out of order and get called for a courtesy...this is not the case since it explicitly states that the player has to be present when it's their turn. If they're not present, you count the 30 seconds and that is done. The rule then says that they cannot make any throws on that hole after 30 seconds is up. There is nothing left for interpretation. This is exactly the rule McCray was trying to call on McBeth at the Memorial a couple years back when he was counting out to 30 out loud while McBeth ran off to the bathroom.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by notroman View Post
I'm not sure how that's confusing for you. This rule specifically states to take the throwing order into account, and start the 30 second timer. You're trying to bring in another rule saying that in some cases players can throw out of order and get called for a courtesy...this is not the case since it explicitly states that the player has to be present when it's their turn. If they're not present, you count the 30 seconds and that is done. The rule then says that they cannot make any throws on that hole after 30 seconds is up. There is nothing left for interpretation. This is exactly the rule McCray was trying to call on McBeth at the Memorial a couple years back when he was counting out to 30 out loud while McBeth ran off to the bathroom.
Because this rule from the competition manual doesnt say that...

Quote:
Late-arriving players, for either Shotgun or Tee Time rounds, are responsible for checking with the TD, Tournament Central, or the Tee Time Starter to learn their correct starting group and are solely responsible for starting play with that playing group or the group created by the TD due to the player’s absence. The player will receive the par plus four score for each hole that the playing group has either completed or finished teeing on. Playing with any other group constitutes an attempt to gain a competitive advantage and is a disqualification.
It says "finished teeing on". It does not say anything about teeing order. If they want to take out the part about finished teeing or put in "See rulebook for rules about teeing order" then fine.

Like I said above, which rule are we supposed to take first?

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 11-20-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2018, 03:33 PM
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Another thing, if this situation was brought up during an event I was in, I probably wouldn't look at the rulebook. I would assume that rule would be in the competition manual. Then I would find what I posted above and since it says nothing about teeing order(nor does it refer me to the correct rule in the RB) I would assume the player can tee off... Given that he was able to throw within 30sec from when the last player exited the teeing area.

Whatever the correct interpretation of the rule is, it needs to be clarified in the part of the book that is "wrong".
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:35 PM
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This situation came up earlier in the year. My foursome got stuck on the furthest hole on a 36 hole course. I grabbed the card as soon as it was post and made the long 2 mile journey.

On my way I stumbled across another member of our card along the way. We heard the two minute call and we still about 1/2 hole away from our assigned tee pad.

When we arrive another member of our card was sitting there alone, worried and waiting for us. We took the long way I guess. But another member of our card was missing.

You ever notice how the top card never starts the furthest away?

Shortly upon our arrival the start signal was given. I asked the other members of the card if they had any issue giving the 4th the another minute or so to arrive. We all agree to my suggestion. And low and behold he showed up in a frantic state.

It is amazing how much Sportsmanship and Courtesy can go into the implementation of rules. I have never seen anyone penalized for displaying those two qualities.

And of course no two situations are the same. It is amazing how far a minute patience can take you.

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