#21  
Old 05-09-2022, 04:03 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddL View Post
https://i.imgur.com/LyBYICm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2PfdcGY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hQnACsM.jpg
(lie locations are approximate, of course)

A couple of important notes:
- He took a meter off the OB line before taking relief. As others have said, this is legal.
- Smith only took relief backwards by 5 or 8 feet.
- Hebenheimer specifically said "You don't get a meter the second time, though", which is correct.
- Hebenheimer walked behind him, checked out the line, checked out his new lie, and declared it legal.

All of those combine for me to say it looks legal to me. If he had gone farther backwards, like 20' or more, he would have run into the OB line again. However, only moving back 5' or 8' didn't really bring the OB fence back into play.

Judging solely from video, I would have said it looked "close enough to legal" to not complain about. Once Hebenheimer jumped in with his accurate knowledge of the rules and his line-check, I'm confident that it was legal.

So basically, it seems there is a consensus that the title of this thread is the thing that is incorrect.
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2022, 01:08 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
How about when his caddy held down the branches of a tree so that Brodie could take his stance?
I would call that being helpful.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2022, 09:20 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
I would call that being helpful.
sure. and also against the rules

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  #24  
Old 05-23-2022, 12:13 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
sure. and also against the rules
Please point out what rules were broken.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2022, 01:06 PM
Dcinmd Dcinmd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
Please point out what rules were broken.
803.1 Moving Obstacles

A. A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:

1. A player may move casual obstacles that are on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.

2. A player may request that other people move themselves or their belongings.

3. A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles.

C. A player who moves any obstacle on the course other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.

This includes caddies as part of Competition Manual which states.

3.05 Carts, Caddies and Groups

C. Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie’s conduct from the two-minute signal until the player’s scorecard is submitted. Any penalties for misconduct by a caddie (as defined in this section and in 3.03) will be applied to both player and caddie.
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2022, 11:57 AM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcinmd View Post
803.1 Moving Obstacles

A. A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:

1. A player may move casual obstacles that are on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.

2. A player may request that other people move themselves or their belongings.

3. A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles.

C. A player who moves any obstacle on the course other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.

This includes caddies as part of Competition Manual which states.

3.05 Carts, Caddies and Groups

C. Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie’s conduct from the two-minute signal until the player’s scorecard is submitted. Any penalties for misconduct by a caddie (as defined in this section and in 3.03) will be applied to both player and caddie.
His caddy did not break any of these rules.
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  #27  
Old 06-06-2022, 08:01 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
His caddy did not break any of these rules.
Quote:
3.05 B - A caddie must be at least 13 years of age and must comply with the same Official Rules of Disc Golf and Competition Manual their player must follow, including the dress code, although a caddie need not be a PDGA member nor Certified Official.
they broke the following rule:

Quote:
303. A - A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2022, 08:49 AM
txmxer txmxer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
they broke the following rule:
I went back and watched the incident.

They moved/bent the tree branch so Brodie could get in to the tree to take a stance.

Once he took his stance, he wasn’t bending the branch.

I’ve seen other players work really hard and take awkward stance to avoid what they did.

BUT, IMO the rules don’t actually address the approach to the stance., unless you look at the statement about moving loose debris. They moved an attached branch that returned to its natural position.

I don’t know if that was a violation, but it is certainly not how others tend to play it.
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2022, 09:18 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
I went back and watched the incident.

They moved/bent the tree branch so Brodie could get in to the tree to take a stance.

Once he took his stance, he wasn’t bending the branch.

I’ve seen other players work really hard and take awkward stance to avoid what they did.

BUT, IMO the rules don’t actually address the approach to the stance., unless you look at the statement about moving loose debris. They moved an attached branch that returned to its natural position.

I don’t know if that was a violation, but it is certainly not how others tend to play it.
"A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course." I feel that this addresses the approach to the stance, because the next sentence says "Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle."

edit: also can you tell me what round/time it was at, just out of curiosity? I went back and tried to find it again myself but no luck lol
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2022, 09:41 AM
txmxer txmxer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
"A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course." I feel that this addresses the approach to the stance, because the next sentence says "Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle."

edit: also can you tell me what round/time it was at, just out of curiosity? I went back and tried to find it again myself but no luck lol
I think it was just after 58 minutes of round 3.

I don't know the answer, but tend to agree with you that it violated the intent of the rule. I want our rules mavens to weigh in.

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