#521  
Old 09-25-2018, 06:33 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I agree it's likely fundamental...I'm going to try to get more forward like an infielder ready for the play as SW described...something I actually know how to do.


I know you were most likely influenced (like I was) by that Will S. "how to video", because damn, you're doing a pretty solid impersonation! The thing I now hate about that video, is that he's all flat push and no down swing - it's so gnarly trying to undo that move.

What I like about the downswing and the windmill drill, is that if you go tall-toes to crushing and bracing for impact - the system itself gives you the power.

All of the power you need. The arc gets tacked on and you've got your motor. You don't have to hurry it up, just let it get to the center chest.

You depart the backfoot completely as the disc starts moving forward and the natural windmill sensation is analogous to "tossing a basketball underhand" forward.

In fact, I'd bet if you took a basket ball to the field (or a few balls) and windmilled them forward with both hands, you'd find yourself naturally tilting.
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  #522  
Old 09-25-2018, 06:54 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
I know you were most likely influenced (like I was) by that Will S. "how to video", because damn, you're doing a pretty solid impersonation! The thing I now hate about that video, is that he's all flat push and no down swing - it's so gnarly trying to undo that move.

What I like about the downswing and the windmill drill, is that if you go tall-toes to crushing and bracing for impact - the system itself gives you the power.

All of the power you need. The arc gets tacked on and you've got your motor. You don't have to hurry it up, just let it get to the center chest.

You depart the backfoot completely as the disc starts moving forward and the natural windmill sensation is analogous to "tossing a basketball underhand" forward.

In fact, I'd bet if you took a basket ball to the field (or a few balls) and windmilled them forward with both hands, you'd find yourself naturally tilting.
I hate the "keep the head down" more than anything, but yeah it's super hard to stay low like he does and actually shift your weight properly, need to change your level and get taller in the x-step and then lower to pump the ground to swing. Tossing basketball or a slegdehammer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BUOAZrbMGs#t=4m

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  #523  
Old 09-25-2018, 06:56 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I think you're spot on with everything you said in that post. That video definitely made me emphasize the wrong things for a long time...there's just certain things that "look" important in his form when you don't know how it should actually feel. You're right about the forward shift movement, I feel like it's way easier to feel a drop in an X-step for me since I can pop up to the toes, so good reminder about the windmill drill to feel that lift to drop in a standstill.

It's funny, I was a little while ago mimicking a lefty FH motion and it felt HORRIBLE with how my spine is used to moving that direction from RHBH. That extra late lurch forward just feels bad when I focus on the back arm, even though actually throwing a disc LHFH would feel bad anyways. Then with the description of throwing/rolling a large ball like that, also like how Schusterick does it in the bowling video, gets me forward naturally. I can almost imagine doing a LHFH with my back arm while doing a RHBH motion to keep my spine forward.

I guess these are all variations on how to visualize the battering ram. It's funny how so many things can seem different or you have to hear things different ways until one of them clicks. At least now I'm really identifying this bad balance and can hopefully get it refined.

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  #524  
Old 09-26-2018, 12:59 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post

What I like about the downswing and the windmill drill, is that if you go tall-toes to crushing and bracing for impact - the system itself gives you the power.

All of the power you need. The arc gets tacked on and you've got your motor. You don't have to hurry it up, just let it get to the center chest.
Yeah I like your reasoning too that you don't have to speed it up like with a fast linear X-step...compared to say GG with a more vertical hop and then heavy drop.

So compared to a standstill/one step/windmill, whatever of your choice, how much do you gain with an X-step since you focus on the ground impact anyways? Is there still a significant velocity/distance increase and do you have to work on keeping the same feel quite a lot?
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:34 AM
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Same Gravitron machine feel. I can standstill and hop and generate almost as much power as an x-step(it's harder to aim with just the vertical hop though), there's still a horizontal acceleration component landing on the back leg and moving into the plant leg like coming down a half pipe into the plant.

Gravity is what gives you weight. Force is measured in weight. Much more efficient to let gravity accelerate your mass on the way down and pump it up off the ground, than you trying to accelerate your mass horizontally and transform it to weight through bracing. Vertical brace is efficient and your body is built for it, it's how you stand up and walk around and knee bends. Horizontal brace is less efficient and harder on the body, puts more horizontal torque on joints like the knee that isn't meant to bend that way.

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  #526  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:53 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Same Gravitron machine feel. I can standstill and hop and generate almost as much power as an x-step(it's harder to aim with just the vertical hop though), there's still a horizontal acceleration component landing on the back leg and moving into the plant leg like coming down a half pipe into the plant.

Gravity is what gives you weight. Force is measured in weight. Much more efficient to let gravity accelerate your mass on the way down and pump it up off the ground, than you trying to accelerate your mass horizontally and transform it to weight through bracing. Vertical brace is efficient and your body is built for it, it's how you stand up and walk around and knee bends. Horizontal brace is less efficient and harder on the body, puts more horizontal torque on joints like the knee that isn't meant to bend that way.
Well I guess force is weight since it relates mass to the gravitational pull/acceleration...

But more importantly, that makes sense. Like how Griffey Jr. has such a small length stride, heavy drop, and relatively vertical brace leg.

I will definitely work my standstills to more of a drop to help keep my knee happy, and hopefully translate that well to an X-step. I've been throwing so many standstills lately that I actually am throwing the same or shorter X-step. I'm not too concerned though, it takes repetition and I would like to have more of the drop->brace rather than have to really catch/redirect myself from forward momentum.

How much difference do you find though for yourself? I know you can throw standstills very efficiently, so do you gain even 10%ish with a stride?
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  #527  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:29 AM
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Yeah, Griffey Jr = Steve Brinster.

About 15-20% more distance, and feels about 50% more effortless due to more hop than horizontal though.

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  #528  
Old 09-26-2018, 12:24 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Yeah I like your reasoning too that you don't have to speed it up like with a fast linear X-step...compared to say GG with a more vertical hop and then heavy drop.

So compared to a standstill/one step/windmill, whatever of your choice, how much do you gain with an X-step since you focus on the ground impact anyways? Is there still a significant velocity/distance increase and do you have to work on keeping the same feel quite a lot?
Without flexing or relying on turn, I have thrown speed 10 drivers 400' - from a 1 step. I have an example windmill to 400' at the end of the windmill drill video. That power feels extremely reproducible, as I'm just catching my own weight and I don't have to generate anything.

When I add an x-step, I might be able to generate another 15% of distance, but truth be told - I don't know exactly where that increase is coming from. If I had to guess, it'd be mainly more forward momentum adding to the downshift. If that extra power is available I can focus a bit more on angles and setting the arc starting line nice and deep in the power pocket.

It's super weird because I think if I look at my form in a 1-step, it's about as good as I can do right now. An x-step will often times make certain things worse in my form, but the momentum makes up for it.

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  #529  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
An old video ('89) of a golf pro: Search: Jimmy Ballard: The Fundamental Golf Swing (June 11, 1989) - was shared and he used some terminology that completely blew me away as a disc golf teacher and student!

Paraphrasing, "if you take a basketball and throw it forward with two hands, you do nearly everything right"... and let me tell you, I had to agree!!!

One of the simplest ways to fix/feel a solid brace - is something you've probably done hundreds of times in your life.

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  #530  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:23 PM
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I didn't touch a disc or think about my own throw for 4 or 5 days and just got back from a round. I am getting better balance, I know it's not there yet but right direction

What I'm wondering about is something I felt in a couple throws where I think I got forward with my shoulder/spine close to the right way, rather than staying back then jutting forward. From the power pocket through the hit point and follow through all I felt was a connection up my right side from my pelvis to my shoulder. It was like a band going up my side. The disc just went out from there, without really trying. I didn't feel anything in my shoulder socket or shoulder muscles at all.

Is this something I should be aiming for or trying to reproduce...not really feeling like my shoulder itself is doing anything?
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