#21  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:32 AM
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DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
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Mickey Mantle once said that the way he learned to swing a bat was by tossing up cherries and hitting them in his back yard.
It would just be reasonable to conclude that anyone who does this will be as good as MM. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea of getting a bunch of OS drivers and throwing them as hard as you can to learn distance is just plain BAD ADVICE!!
Let's start with the idea that EagleM is a magnificently talented young DG'er who has risen to the top of his profession through hard work and throwing OS drivers "until his arm fell off". I'll buy that.
But to suggest that advice for my 60-year-old body is just nuts.
It would do more harm than good. Period.

As I get older, I find that the harder I throw, the more damage I inflict upon my aging body.
My improvements have been through hard work at smoothing and improving my form.

Not trying to start a flame war, just can't disappointed that I'm not 18 anymore.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:54 PM
Tudubs Tudubs is offline
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What does firming up on the front side mean? Is it what sidewinder said that Im doing wrong with the hershyzer drill?
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2018, 07:27 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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https://youtu.be/hwBylijfbZk

https://youtu.be/Ip9kRui-ddg

Common term in golf and baseball, means the plant leg sets a strong axis of rotation and you carry momentum around that.

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  #24  
Old 07-15-2018, 08:28 AM
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XC_Eddy XC_Eddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Spin typically increases with speed due to leveraging the disc. Typically trying to increase spin by curling the wrist slows speed down.
This seems to be true. However, some people seem to have a way of getting spin and therefore distance while throwing with less arm speed. For example, Bradley Williams. Here he is throwing 10mph less than the Crush boys, but going almost as far. Is there something about his form that adds more spin on the disc?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXZlfK2hvbc

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  #25  
Old 07-15-2018, 12:48 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
This seems to be true. However, some people seem to have a way of getting spin and therefore distance while throwing with less arm speed. For example, Bradley Williams. Here he is throwing 10mph less than the Crush boys, but going almost as far. Is there something about his form that adds more spin on the disc?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXZlfK2hvbc
You are assuming the difference has to do with spin. There might be some slight difference, but we don't actually know the spin rate or ratio on any of these throws. I wouldn't be surprised if the crushers actually have a higher spin rate/RPM than BW if we had measurements. I'd bet the spin ratios are pretty similar on these golf shots.

The real world difference we can actually see is in the disc stability and trajectory/flight. BW is throwing a significantly higher trajectory with less stable discs, so they actually glide out downward further from the higher apex and less stable discs don't fade into the ground as fast.

You would be mistaken to think that BW would be close to those guys in an open field or on the same line with same disc.

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  #26  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:28 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
You are assuming the difference has to do with spin.
100% Agree

What affects distance:

1. Speed of Disc
2. Height / Trajectory
3. Disc Angles: Nose up or down & hyzer or anhyzer
4. Disc Characteristics: Speed, Glide, Turn & Fade

That's what you can change to see the difference between a BW 60mph shot going the same distance as an Eagle 76mph shot.

BW Shot
1. Speed: 60mph
2. Height: 18'
3. Disc Angle: Nose down flat shot
4. Higher glide, more turn

Eagle Shot
1. Speed 76mph
2. Height: 10'
3. Disc Angle: Hyzer Release
2. Low glide, zero turn

This goes back to the difference between throwing max power with an OS disc will only go 300' (firebird) which requires little to no touch and won't go long VERSUS a teebird or Roc that does require some touch and can more easily turn and go long on you.

Glideless discs are a very powerful tool in being accurate with ranging shots.
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2018, 02:32 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
The idea of getting a bunch of OS drivers and throwing them as hard as you can to learn distance is just plain BAD ADVICE!!
Try it for a few months, and you'll see. 16 or 60 (I'm pushing 60), it will help. Abd btw..it's not to "learn" distance, if you have bad form, this will just help you throw further..with bad form. It's to "add distance" not "learn distance".

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
Let's start with the idea that EagleM is a magnificently talented young DG'er who has risen to the top of his profession through hard work and throwing OS drivers "until his arm fell off". I'll buy that.
According to him, he wasn't "magnificently talented" at that point. He just wanted to throw far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
But to suggest that advice for my 60-year-old body is just nuts. It would do more harm than good. Period. As I get older, I find that the harder I throw, the more damage I inflict upon my aging body. My improvements have been through hard work at smoothing and improving my form. Not trying to start a flame war, just can't disappointed that I'm not 18 anymore.
No flame war intended either. That is unfortunate, I have a bad knee due to rupturing an achilles tendon, but my arms are fine and I can throw hard all day long. Stretching and weight lifting are vital in our age brackets. But let's be real..in our divisions (grandmaster, sr. grand, etc) we don't need Eagle distance, we just need 320+ to be competitive because in our division(s) it's all about the short game.
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  #28  
Old 07-16-2018, 07:05 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
According to him, he wasn't "magnificently talented" at that point. He just wanted to throw far.
He was out throwing nearly everybody in Denver by the time he was 14. It was annoying.

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  #29  
Old 07-17-2018, 04:14 AM
Hoeschel Hoeschel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
100% Agree

What affects distance:

1. Speed of Disc
2. Height / Trajectory
3. Disc Angles: Nose up or down & hyzer or anhyzer
4. Disc Characteristics: Speed, Glide, Turn & Fade
What about OAT? Does it only affect stability, allowing you to throw discs with more glide, or does it have an effect on its own?
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  #30  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:26 AM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
What about OAT? Does it only affect stability, allowing you to throw discs with more glide, or does it have an effect on its own?
Watch this: https://youtu.be/XPUuF_dECVI?t=2759

My understanding, and all caveats are declared now, is that spin angular momentum would have your disc maintain it's release angles. Ignoring the flight characteristics of the disc, your disc stays locked into it's angle.

Adding weight as he does in the video to the axis of rotation causes the spin angular momentum to chase the torque, which would I believe cause the disc to barrel roll if you could continuously add that weight.

I would argue that we CANNOT continuously add weight (we've long since let go), what we do is add wobble. Because wobble on a flying disc would have your torque moving from one side of the spinning body to the other, the spin angular momentum chases the torque one direction, then the other - effectively canceling each other out in regards to amount of turn added to the disc.

What I believe it DOES do, is greatly disrupt the air flow around the disc. My very limited understanding of wobble in the system is that disrupting the airflow, like dimples on a golf-ball can improve the objects ability to cut through the air - which would keep the disc moving in HSS flight characteristics longer than it would otherwise (in most cases causing more turn).



The stability of the disc should steady the wobble over time, again because we have removed the weight from the axis of rotation as soon as we let go of the disc.

TLDR; wobble adds dimples to your golf ball and would be a horrible way to try to control the flight characteristics... "doh, I should have added more wobble to that shot!"

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