#1961  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:48 AM
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justin justin is offline
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
that should be no different than the fact that new reviews are always changing the rating...
Sure, from the user standpoint there's no difference because you just click a button and you see the reviews and maybe there's a retabulation in the backgroun. As for TimG's side of things he would have to set the review page to be able to tabulate an average rating based on reviews from a list of reviewers which is not simply "all reviews" as he has things setup currently. This would involve something like creating a new table just for the trusted reviewers which he would have to move people into as they gained that status. Even if he doesn't move the trusted reviewers, the account property that grants them that status would now have to be accounted for in course ratings and he would have to rewrite a lot of crap to make this work. He's a smart guy. I'm sure he could figure it out. I just wouldn't hold your breath that this is a project he wants to take on.

Let's say this feature was implemented and it was extremely popular. I have a concern for validity of those future trusted reviewer's reviews. There would be a potential corruption since each course would only have a couple trusted reviewer reviews. A few of these reviewers could give poor rating to a private course who didn't let the trusted reviewer play for free or they could inflate course ratings due to personal relationships with designers, land owners, etc.

Of course I hope that would not happen but it is a possibility - if that feature were to become a big deal.

In the end, if you're on the fence about playing a course and a trusted reviewer's review is what will turn your "maybe I'll play it" into an "I'll probably play it" then don't waste your time traveling to that course. It's great that a lot of people take a lot of time and care to review a course in such a detailed way but it's not like trip advisor where you're trying to decide on spending $$$$ to goto country X or $$$$ to goto country Y. I don't think having a trusted reviewer-only rating would be that great in the end.
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  #1962  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:13 AM
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HarkeyPuck HarkeyPuck is offline
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Play them all 0-5

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  #1963  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellsbranch250 View Post
agreed. plus i also think it would be easy to add a tr number rating below the full rating.
for example - harmony bends - see thumbnail

rating:
ooooo
4.90
tr - 5.00
TR's are great....to a point. I think they kind of represent a very similar disc golf demographic though. Obviously, they have played a lot of courses, most are vets to the game, most are probably pretty competent golfers. This experience lends many attributes that the new or casual golfer may not have.....example....When a more experience golfer shanks a shot into the shule, we have a pretty good idea of where to look for the disc. We understand what the disc will do, once out of sight, how far it might travel down hill, once out of sight and most are pretty good at looking down the shot, not turning away in frustration. These skill, learned as they are, may impact the TR's view of the rough on a course.

I am sure Harmony Bends is a fantastic course, but let's wait for a few noob reviews, trashing it for being too hard, or hilly, or lacking some certain amenity that the particular player highly values. All the other courses on the list certainly have these figured into the rank.

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  #1964  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:48 AM
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If a system of TR only ratings were incorporated, it would be nice to add a multiplier to said ratings by TR level.

Diamond-5x
Gold-3x
Silver-2x
Bronze-1x

Or something similar. Maybe it's only 2.0/1.5/1.25/1, but you catch my drift. Mostly because it doesn't take all that much to become a Bronze level reviewer, and it takes a ton to become a Diamond level reviewer.

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  #1965  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:55 AM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
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From a statistics perspective, ru4por makes some valid points about TR's representing a somewhat limited and specific segment of the general population. That said, there are a lot of non-TR's (like himself) that have as much (if not more) experience as many TR's.

A ton of variables can affect people evaluate and rate a course:
How long they've been playing.
# of courses played.
# of different areas/states/countries played; what seems incredible in one region might only seem slightly above average in another.
Considering tournament play vs. casual rounds.
Local's perspective vs. a traveler's perspective.

Supposed to be listening to this conference call, so I forgot where I'm going with this, but I think the point is everyone's opinion is valid from a certain point of view.

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  #1966  
Old 08-04-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
From a statistics perspective, ru4por makes some valid points about TR's representing a somewhat limited and specific segment of the general population. That said, there are a lot of non-TR's (like himself) that have as much (if not more) experience as many TR's.

A ton of variables can affect people evaluate and rate a course:
How long they've been playing.
# of courses played.
# of different areas/states/countries played; what seems incredible in one region might only seem slightly above average in another.
Considering tournament play vs. casual rounds.
Local's perspective vs. a traveler's perspective.

Supposed to be listening to this conference call, so I forgot where I'm going with this, but I think the point is everyone's opinion is valid from a certain point of view.
This is where I was going with my post. I have maintained in this thread all along, that TR's opinions are no more valid than anyone else. They may add more value for many using the review feature, but as a traveling golfer, some TR's have a vastly different set of priorities in their review standards, than I might find important. Many place great weight on course design elements. I could care not care less. The hole offers no reasonable lines......so what? The course is set with too many holes left to right (lefty or sidearm friendly).....so what? The point, as it has been all along from me is.........we all have different priorities and things we look for in a course. I am more than comfortable with a two disc review from some noob, complaining about the lack of picnic tables. As the discerning traveler, I will read through the reviews, good and bad, and glean the information I feel important. I maintain, I don't really think the review and rating here are broken, in any fashion.

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  #1967  
Old 08-04-2017, 01:25 PM
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Does the average eliminate outliers? Sorry if that was already discussed I'm a lazy reader. Rather than relay on a TR average only it would be much more simple from a programming perspective to just eliminate outliers from the average after a certain number of reviews on a given course. I don't know what would be considered an outlier with a small range of 1 to 5, given how opinions vary, but for an established course that is a 4.5 I don't see a point in including some newbs 2.0 in the average. A minimum amount of reviews is certainly necessary to make sure it's not just a 5.0 because the 10 guys who put the course in and their buddies have all the reviews, but eventually it should work itself out. Lots to consider and that was just my thought after reading the last few comments.
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  #1968  
Old 08-04-2017, 01:29 PM
Lazerface Lazerface is offline
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On Harmony Bends - I played the course last WED for the 2nd time when my brother was in town from CO . It really is the best course I have played, but I have not played any others in the top 5. With that said, the holes in the valley that have the large creek lining the fairways have over a hundred feet thick stinging nettle from the edge of the fairway down to the creeks edge with no trails or areas to walk in the stuff. It's seriously like 95% nettle and too thick to see down into. We saw 2 discs sitting in the creek and we made the same decision as the thrower to leave them because getting down there in shorts would of been horrendous. If you fear snakes it would be scary too cause it's that thick (I'm a snake guy, so it was the burning from the nettle that did me in). I did not like that the "rough" was really just natural OB given the nettle. The mower went through the course the morning we played and one extra strip of the nettle was cut and I found 4 discs in that 48 inch strip on the edge of one fairway. I would not let that affect my rating - it's a 5.0 in my book, but they really need to spray that ****, or brush hog it. I don't recall hole numbers but it's on the edge of the fairway on one of the iconic holes where you throw your tee shot over the edge of the winding creek and there is an awesome tree that stretches out across the fairway horizontally a couple hundred feet short of the basket.
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  #1969  
Old 08-04-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
Does the average eliminate outliers? Sorry if that was already discussed I'm a lazy reader. Rather than relay on a TR average only it would be much more simple from a programming perspective to just eliminate outliers from the average after a certain number of reviews on a given course. I don't know what would be considered an outlier with a small range of 1 to 5, given how opinions vary, but for an established course that is a 4.5 I don't see a point in including some newbs 2.0 in the average. A minimum amount of reviews is certainly necessary to make sure it's not just a 5.0 because the 10 guys who put the course in and their buddies have all the reviews, but eventually it should work itself out. Lots to consider and that was just my thought after reading the last few comments.
Why? The opinion of someone that does not agree with the majority of reviewer, should be considered invalid? If some guy doesn't like the course, he should be able to rate it as he wishes. I completely fail to understand how or why the opinions of some should be considered more valid.

Sorry Lazer, not directed at you personally.

A great example would be my take of Flip. I really enjoy this course, but would likely rate it a solid three/three and a half disc course. It simply does not provide me with those things I would need to put it in the top ten courses I have ever played.

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  #1970  
Old 08-04-2017, 03:19 PM
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As has been addressed ad nauseum in several threads prior to this one, outlier ratings really only affect the overall average when a course has relatively few reviews. Once a course reaches a critical mass of reviews, (twenty seems to work pretty well), things tend to work themselves out pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
I don't recall hole numbers but it's on the edge of the fairway on one of the iconic holes where you throw your tee shot over the edge of the winding creek and there is an awesome tree that stretches out across the fairway horizontally a couple hundred feet short of the basket.
#13... and yes, that's an awesome tree arcing across the fairway, with the river skirting the left side all the way down.
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