#3081  
Old 10-29-2020, 04:45 PM
BuzzzChief's Avatar
BuzzzChief BuzzzChief is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Years Playing: 18.5
Courses Played: 88
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,722
Niced 505 Times in 268 Posts
Default

People here are totally up in arms about restaurant indoor dining getting shut down again. A ton of restaurants are flat-out refusing to comply with the order. Personally I am nowhere near ready to eat inside a restaurant anytime soon. You're sitting in an enclosed space without a mask, with everyone loudly talking. It doesn't get much higher risk than that.

People are like "show me the proof that restaurants are causing the spike" but I don't think it's possible to pin the spike down to one particular activity. More contact in general, especially more indoor contact without a mask, is going to lead to an increase. The point is to reduce activities that are clearly high risk. I understand that restaurants are hurting but what else are we supposed to do? Bury our heads in the sand and pray that it goes away?
Sponsored Links

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #3082  
Old 10-29-2020, 04:52 PM
perklc perklc is online now
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Courses Played: 8
Posts: 295
Niced 387 Times in 149 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notapro View Post
Cook County here, it doesn't get worse than that, right?
I would trade you in a heartbeat both in location and Covid numbers . It looks like Cook County is hanging out around 8% rolling 7-day average. Up here we are nearly 17% We've already been put under Tier-1 and then tier-2 mitigations, and the numbers continue to grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzzChief View Post
People are like "show me the proof that restaurants are causing the spike" but I don't think it's possible to pin the spike down to one particular activity.
This is the argument that state reps in the area are using. However, if you ask our health departments, they are saying that it has been extremely difficult for contact tracers to get any information about where infected people have been leaving the only reliable data as places like nursing homes.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #3083  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:03 PM
notapro's Avatar
notapro notapro is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago Burbs
Years Playing: 17.4
Courses Played: 532
Posts: 3,475
Niced 123 Times in 44 Posts
Default

I'll add my experience too in case anyone cares.

I am an engineer that works 20 miles from home, so my pre-Covid commute was anywhere from 35-60 minutes one way. I have a 9 year old and a 3 year old in the house along with me and the wife who is a teacher.

When quarantine started, we went to 100% work from home, and my son also started 100% remote learning. Over the summer my job starting alternating days, so I go into the office every other day. We are very strict about wearing masks in the building, and following every government-mandated rule.

My wife/kids had multiple vacations cancelled - one to Disneyworld, one to Mexico, and probably another to Florida. I would have been going to Mexico as well, which has been postponed until next year.

As of the start of the school year, my wife goes into her school but is teaching class remotely. My son goes to school in the AM every day, and Grandma has been nice enough to watch him the days I am at work. My daughter goes to daycare 5 days a week, but also has preschool Tuesday and Thursday mornings, Grandma takes her to preschool on the days I'm at work too.

So, it's pretty much business as usual around here. Working from home every other day has been great (now that the kids are in school at least), and the days I do go in, traffic is nonexistent in Chicagoland, which is awesome.

The wife and I have gone out to dinner for our anniversary, we've gone out to dinner with her brother/mom/etc. a handful of times. We have gone disc golfing once together at a PACKED PACKED packed Canyons.

I have gone disc golfing more this year than the previous 5 years combined probably. Multiple trips to Indiana to bang out unplayed courses, a few forays to northern Illinois, and I also took a 10-day, 3800 mile road trip to play in 5 new states. I always wear a mask when interacting with people outside my family, and have sanitizer in the car whenever I touch something outside my house or work. Once every other week I go to a friends house to play cards, but other than that I have no social interaction with anyone.

I personally know at least a dozen people who got Covid, some were fine and others were NOT fine (luckily no deaths). Most were early on when nobody had any idea what Covid even was. I was sick as I have ever been in early February (had a fever of 105.2 at one point), but ever since then have been feeling great! I kinda want to wear a mask and sanitize my hands like mad even after all this has blown over.

Reply With Quote
  #3084  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:18 PM
ru4por's Avatar
ru4por ru4por is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dearborn Michigan
Years Playing: 37.5
Courses Played: 250
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 5,265
Niced 4,614 Times in 1,598 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notapro View Post
If you don't mind, what are the outlandish and untrue statements in the video? I don't follow any of this closely, at all, just posted the video as it echoes my personal sentiment.

I am also not disputing that there should be some sort of shutdown/government intervention. But I do feel that closing private businesses is a bit of an overreach, especially if there is no relief/subsidy to make up for the lost business.



But where does this end? What about the people who go to gas stations? Supermarkets? DMV? I had to get my emissions checked to renew my license plate.

My point is, it is arbitrary to shut down restaurants and not supermarkets... that's what grinds my gears.
Sorry for the novel.
l
The mayor starts with claiming that positivity rates are impacting closures. Those rate thresholds have been changing from 20% to 8%. He claims this is arbitrary…. of course, it is not. He even says so, when he then admits to not understanding the science. His main complaint is that his immediate jurisdiction is not seeing a large spike but is being shut down. I can’t believe he would expect the governor to be making mandates municipality by municipality. Counties, perhaps…but, the entire Chicagoland area is in very dire conditions, with the infection and hospitalization rates.
7 days of positivity ratings are up. He is claiming this is about testing. Fair enough, but the objective metrics for COVID increases is petty limited. I might suggest that hospitalization rates are a more reliable and important stat. But, alas…. the mayor here does not care for that number either. He tries to blame the rise in hospitalizations on flu, pneumonia and rhinovirus as the triggers for this increase. This is a blatant lie and dangerous. The three above are not triggering COVID hospitalization number to rise. Hospitalizations are based on need, symptoms severe enough to require medical intervention and around the clock medical observation, to ensure life is sustained. We are not hospitalizing COVID patients who are laying around waiting for results. Are bed being given to the three health deficits above…certainly. Pneumonia has a steady significant hospitalization and mortality rate, completely independent of the pandemic. So, does the flu, when in season. The flu hospitalizes people every year and significant numbers of people die from it. The flu is just another great reason for COVID restrictions, not a reason to not do them. Hospital beds are a finite resource, and you DO NOT want to overwhelm the system. People would not have access to the medical care needed to save their lives. Bottom line…people are being hospitalized because they are sick. A COVID test will quickly give you numbers, but in the end, it doesn’t matter. The shutdowns should occur based on the hospitalization rates, period. It does not matter that 6% of those beds are always diabetes related or not.
He again goes on to use “reopen” numbers. Science has changed and we are able to anticipate the pending strain on hospital resources. The potential for COVID spread, because of the science, is much greater and faster than any historic flu numbers. Yet the mayor wants to use flu numbers as a predictor.

He then tries to claim that the latest spike numbers were skewed due to nursing home numbers. And he is right. But, here in Michigan, we are no longer able to make use of nursing homes for COVID. All those numbers he is claiming were misrepresented, are now going to be hospital numbers. See, this is BAD. All things being equal to the first spike…the flu and the nursing home COVID patients are now taking up needed beds. What does he not get?

He then goes on about some anti restaurant conspiracy theory. “video gaming, inside a restaurant is perfectly safe, but eating is not” mayor states as a statement from the governor. Again, with a conspiracy claim. I am not sure this was said, but both are dumb. Though, gaming can be done with a mask, eating and drinking cannot. But, saying restaurants should be open because video gaming is…. well, it is false logic.

He goes on about enforcement and the legality of an executive order. It is likely that when challenged in the supreme court of the state, it will be true. This has happened in Michigan and Wisconsin. Given the realities of bipartisan house and senates in these states, I believe the governor’s made executive orders knowing they would ultimately lose the power. But they also saw saving lives more important than politics.

Honestly, he makes no sense and sounds like a denier. One that is likely running for re-election or has significant financial holdings in a restaurant.

The economic struggles are real. It is a devastating reality for many. The options are quickly becoming to harmful. Keeping restaurants open during a large increase in COVID hospitalization is dangerous and will kill a lot of people. I can offer political economic suggestions to help the suffering, but I can’t help bring back the dead. The economy will recover, the dead will not. The suffering of restaurant owners will be forgotten in the next few months…the deaths of loved ones will not. We are all free to have an opinion but choosing to defend life seems like a no brainer to me.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #3085  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:24 PM
ru4por's Avatar
ru4por ru4por is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dearborn Michigan
Years Playing: 37.5
Courses Played: 250
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 5,265
Niced 4,614 Times in 1,598 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzzChief View Post
People here are totally up in arms about restaurant indoor dining getting shut down again. A ton of restaurants are flat-out refusing to comply with the order. Personally I am nowhere near ready to eat inside a restaurant anytime soon. You're sitting in an enclosed space without a mask, with everyone loudly talking. It doesn't get much higher risk than that.

People are like "show me the proof that restaurants are causing the spike" but I don't think it's possible to pin the spike down to one particular activity. More contact in general, especially more indoor contact without a mask, is going to lead to an increase. The point is to reduce activities that are clearly high risk. I understand that restaurants are hurting but what else are we supposed to do? Bury our heads in the sand and pray that it goes away?
In lieu of data, I can only use science and common sense. Bars and restaurants are one of the few activities, indoors, without masks, for extended periods of time. All of these things have been shown independently to negatively impact our protection against COVID. Are there other activities that are potentially as dangerous...movies, gyms....but, they should be shut down soon as well.

I think to argue otherwise is dishonest.
Reply With Quote
  #3086  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:45 PM
Monocacy's Avatar
Monocacy Monocacy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Years Playing: 20.5
Courses Played: 180
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,203
Niced 1,573 Times in 613 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzzChief View Post
. . . Personally I am nowhere near ready to eat inside a restaurant anytime soon. You're sitting in an enclosed space without a mask, with everyone loudly talking. It doesn't get much higher risk than that.
Agreed. Unfortunately restaurants, like many businesses, will be hurting until the pandemic is under control and people feel safe in crowded indoor spaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzzChief View Post
People are like "show me the proof that restaurants are causing the spike" but I don't think it's possible to pin the spike down to one particular activity. . . .
The Louisiana Department of Health posts a remarkably detailed summary of findings from contact tracing. As of 10/28 they list 94 outbreaks and 706 cases associated with bars and restaurants

So Louisiana traced 22% of outbreaks and 21% of cases in non-congregate settings to bars and restaurants.

Contact tracing | Louisiana Department of Health

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #3087  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:47 PM
jakebake91 jakebake91 is online now
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: West Central Wisconsin
Years Playing: 4.5
Courses Played: 7
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,911
Niced 1,480 Times in 723 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
In lieu of data, I can only use science and common sense. Bars and restaurants are one of the few activities, indoors, without masks, for extended periods of time. All of these things have been shown independently to negatively impact our protection against COVID. Are there other activities that are potentially as dangerous...movies, gyms....but, they should be shut down soon as well.

I think to argue otherwise is dishonest.
I'll add this personal experience.....

My wife has 5 or 6 co-workers that have tested covid positive over the last few weeks
They don't all work in the same area, different "pods" if you will. What did they ALL have in common? Nights out at the bars.

Niced: (4)
Reply With Quote
  #3088  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:51 PM
jakebake91 jakebake91 is online now
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: West Central Wisconsin
Years Playing: 4.5
Courses Played: 7
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,911
Niced 1,480 Times in 723 Posts
Default

^feels wrong to see that post "niced" haha. Too bad we couldn't exchange it for another word sometimes....

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #3089  
Old 10-29-2020, 05:58 PM
notapro's Avatar
notapro notapro is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago Burbs
Years Playing: 17.4
Courses Played: 532
Posts: 3,475
Niced 123 Times in 44 Posts
Default

I fixated on this chart that the Mayor showed in the video. Restaurants have been open since June, yet no spike in cases. In my mind, it seems arbitrary, even illogical, to shut down restaurants because the number of cases is increasing.

Everyone who is against eating in restaurants because they're unsafe... have you eaten in a restaurant in the last 6 months? All the restaurants I've been to are very, very good about distancing people, providing good ventilation, and making sure their employees are wearing masks. Maybe I'm just biased, but I really don't see this as a big deal.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg COVID1.jpg (50.1 KB, 132 views)
Reply With Quote
 

  #3090  
Old 10-29-2020, 06:01 PM
Monocacy's Avatar
Monocacy Monocacy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Years Playing: 20.5
Courses Played: 180
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,203
Niced 1,573 Times in 613 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monocacy View Post
So Louisiana traced 22% of outbreaks and 21% of cases in non-congregate settings to bars and restaurants.
Similarly, Maryland traced 5,796 of 26,883 (22%) of cases in "high risk locations" to indoor dining at restaurants and bars.

Edit: Contact tracing | Maryland Department of Health

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakebake91 View Post
^feels wrong to see that post "niced" haha. Too bad we couldn't exchange it for another word sometimes....


Nice point?

Niced: (1)

Last edited by Monocacy; 10-29-2020 at 06:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am I taking this too serious? craftsman General Disc Golf Chat 42 06-11-2020 09:31 PM
Taking at trip to CT discdad Vacations & Road Trips 11 05-05-2020 10:27 PM
If you were a touring pro, would you stop or keep going? COVID-19 holly7845 General Disc Golf Chat 69 03-23-2020 03:36 PM
Taking breaks KRATC Technique & Strategy 26 09-09-2012 07:47 PM
Taking DG TOO seriously??? tomjulio General Disc Golf Chat 29 07-28-2009 08:37 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.