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Old 08-29-2011, 01:04 PM
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SirRaph SirRaph is offline
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Default Video & Pics: Form/Technique/Power Critique (warning: pretty comprehensive/long post)

I'm having trouble with a couple things, and I'm hoping that the good folks on this site can give me some advice.
I know that the issues I'm listing here are likely due to problems that are mutually exclusive. Of course, I'm hoping that they're not, and that by listing all of the issues, I'll expose something that I'm doing that affects all of these issues.

Just for your info, I use a fork grip on everything longer than an approach. I pinch using two fingers (index and middle) when throwing drivers and power midrange shots; but bring my middle finger back and only pinch with my index when driving with putters or when throwing touch shots.
Similar to this pic, but I stack my "support" fingers on top of one another: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3365/...0b0ee4806d.jpg


1) Power
Current distance:
Putters: Wizards/Rhynos go 250' with frustrating consistency
Midranges: I throw Buzzzes about 300' golf-D. Rocs between 260'-310' depending on stability/line.
Fairway Drivers: Teebirds/beat Preds fly 310-330'
Distance Drivers (Pro Destroyers) go between 350' and 380'

All of the above distances are on a relatively straight line-drive. To my great frustration, even when I feel like I really get a hold of a drive with a beat Pro Destroyer, get it to flip up on a high turnover line, fading back perfectly on a big S-curve, I gain only about 10-20' feet over a line-drive with a stable/straight Destroyer. And sometimes I gain no distance, or even lose a bit when throwing a distance line instead of a line-drive.

I feel good about the distances I get with my Buzzzes, and my Roc distances aren't too bad. But only gaining 130' between a putter and a distance driver, and only 50-80' between a midrange and a distance driver is really freaking frustrating.

I feel like I don't get enough wrist rotation/fling, and that my throw is dominated by strong-arming and shoulder/hip rotation. I also have been told by some players better than I that I release/snap too late, therefore not getting enough "fling". That, I think, might be the reason why I can so often get a really powerful SNAP sound when throwing power shots, but still only throwing the distances that I throw, (releasing late, but gripping hard at the rip point, causing a "rip" out instead of a "fling" out, if that makes sense.)

2) Form
I have three issues with my form: a tendency to yank shots off to the right (RHBH) especially when powering down, OAT when driving putters, and a reachback that I feel is somewhat exaggerated.

Yanking Shots:
When I throw at a comfortable 90% power, I'm quite happy with my accuracy. But when I try to power down a shot, especially from a standstill, I have a tendency to yank (release late) shots, always into a hyzer angle, well right of my target. I sometimes yank drives when I try to really crank them, again, always into a hyzer angle.

OAT:
I am able to throw Comets with little or no wobble/OAT. I throw Rocs of every stability and mold without any noticeable OAT. But I do have trouble flipping over even the most stable of Wizards/Ions/etc. Though I throw Rhynos effortlessly, even once they're beat. I have a feeling that it's a grip issue, and that I'm "flinging" putters around my index finger too much, (snagging it, really.) But I know that to break 300' with a putter I'm going to need to grip the thing, so I'm confused as to what I need to change.

Exaggerated Reachback:
For straight drives, I usually begin on the back right side of the teepad, and finish in the middle or even left side of the front part of the teepad. Meaning that like my stationary shots, I have to keep my back partially turned towards the target to keep from yanking the shot.
Possibly due to that issue, I lose sight of the target what I feel like is fairly early into my x-step.
If you watch the video closely, every part of my x-step is on the right side of the teepad except for my planting step.
Is this rotation a good thing? Because when I consciously try to x-step straight, I lose about 10-20% of my distance and, again, have a tendency to yank shots.

Below are links to sequence pics and a video of me throwing a Buzzz at a driving range. This is throwing about 90% power, concentrating hard to get my form right. This particular shot, the Buzzz flew about 300' with a very slight S-turn from a flat release.

Video: http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/f...rowSlowMo1.mp4

Freeze Frame Pics


Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

Lastly, if there are any powerful players with the will/ability to teach, I am willing to pay you for lessons. I'm located in northwestern IN/Chicago region.
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2011, 02:33 PM
RichMeade RichMeade is offline
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I don't think it's a form issue...
Sounds like you just need to practice...and some OCD meds

I mean...in all honesty, your distance is just fine, and you said yourself you are comfortable with your accuracy at 90% power...
If you want more distance you are going to have to give up accuracy...
but in reality...how often do you need a 400'+ pinpoint accurate drive?

My simple suggestion is just start practicing on the lower power shots...or disc down so the disc fits the distance.
If you are yanking when lowering your power that just means you have a consistent grip (which obviously works for you at 90% power)
So just work on a lighter grip specific to the shorter upshots.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:43 PM
biodarwin biodarwin is offline
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2 things.

1.) Your weight is not over your plant foot. This could also be causing a small reverse pivot. It appears to me when you should be getting the weight forward your back foot is not up on its ball for the weight transfer, but looks like your pushing from the side of your foot, if that makes sense.

2.) It looks like your starting you pull just a tad early, meaning your pulling before your plant foot is planted.


#1 probably explains why your are not happy with driver distance. #2 probably explains your yanking things to the left. Maybe your premature pull is even worse when working with less than full power, making your timing delayed, thus the pulling to the left.

Last edited by biodarwin; 08-29-2011 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Math fail
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:51 PM
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CwAlbino CwAlbino is offline
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1. You are releasing early
2. You have little to no acceleration
3. I don't think you are bringing the disc in to your right pec.


You cannot release late, in fact, that's pretty much what you want. Your "griplock" is probably due to #3, not getting it into your right pec. Here's a couple quotes on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kachtz View Post
THE HIT ...or THE SNAP or whatever else you wanna call it


for me its the same, i feel it is just as easy to throw a stand still putter 300' or 200' and have that late acceleration and feel the disc hit out my hand, just like throwing a mid or driver. anhyzer or hyzer doesnt make a difference either.

for people who struggle with getting that hit on the disc is , they just cant make themselves hold on to the disc long enough to get it, most people force them selves to early release because of their approach to the tee, or because they are trying to "aim" the disc, and release it at that perfect spot.... for the disc to get great snap, it has to come out of your hand without you wanting it to.

here is a simple way to know weather or not your "releasing" at the right time.

stand straight up

hold your throwing arm straight out to your side.

face the palm of your hand towards the way your facing.

keeping your whole body still, keeping your arm straight, start moving your arm backwards

ok when it gets to the point where you can not move it anymore

stop and look, your arm is about at the spot where you should be releasing...

you will actually release just before this spot, so that you are accelerating through the hit, but just before it, dont worry, you dont have to time this part, it will come out of your hand already!!

most people who try this...will start off throwing waayyyyyyyy right, but as you keep adjusting to this new release you will find that old throw that used to come out really good and go really far, you used to call a "grip lock" was actually you throwing correct, but out of alignment =D

hope that helps
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithicon View Post
The thing Kachtz mentioned about actually hitting it on the "grip lock," is very true. This is often mentioned by Blake in his articles. The thing about this is, if you're pulling it way right, you're timing is off. So changing your direction is only hindering you ultimately. You need to change the timing so that your hit happens where it's suppose to, and not late.(Off to the right) The thing you want to do is continue getting that "FEELING" of the hit when you were pulling it off to the right, when you correct the timing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEpoo View Post
The key point is that you want your arm to be as close to fully extended as possible when the disc rips and that you want the hit to be way ahead of you. The exact timing and optimal angle for your feet and the direction the disc rips will have to do with your physiology.





Accleration. You really just need to go back to the pec drill, and when you are driving, REALLY focus on exploding after the right pec. You want the disc to go, more or less, in a straight line. Arcing it give it no point to release at, while bringing it in to the right pec gives it a point to release.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:03 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Kind of reiterating above:
1. You are too closed/facing backwards, jamming hip and making weight transfer really funky and never getting forward. Stay on your left toes more, and plant your right foot shorter and further toward the right tee pad 6-12".

2. Pulling early/strong arming. The fourth frame you should be closer to your max reachback, but you can see you already pulling in and tight muscled before the power zone. This is creating several issues, not maintaing upper arm width(arm collapsing against chest), dropping elbow off plane of the shoulders. Try dropping your right shoulder on reachback, keep the arm loose, and reachback low and finish high with a lawn mower pull.

3. I'd highly recommend working from a standstill with the hammer drills, snap vids, and working the hit back. It doesn't look like you are feeling the weight of the disc tug your wrist and getting late acceleration, so snap/smash factor is very limited right now. Go over the last link in the technique sticky:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...ad.php?t=26165
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:07 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Others have already hit the technique parts, I'll just make a couple other comments on the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRaph View Post
All of the above distances are on a relatively straight line-drive. To my great frustration, even when I feel like I really get a hold of a drive with a beat Pro Destroyer, get it to flip up on a high turnover line, fading back perfectly on a big S-curve, I gain only about 10-20' feet over a line-drive with a stable/straight Destroyer. And sometimes I gain no distance, or even lose a bit when throwing a distance line instead of a line-drive.
Part of that is because the Destroyer needs more speed to really work. I'd work with slower discs to get the distance line figured out.

Quote:
I feel good about the distances I get with my Buzzzes, and my Roc distances aren't too bad. But only gaining 130' between a putter and a distance driver, and only 50-80' between a midrange and a distance driver is really freaking frustrating.
Be prepared to be frustrated for a while then. Those gaps are normal even for people who throw far.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:33 PM
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Lithicon Lithicon is offline
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A lot of what you're contributing to other things are one problem for the most part. Your timing is off which is what is causing your power and accuracy problems. Also, With those distances and your description of the throws, you're getting nose up. These make up pretty much all your problems.

There have been some stuff posted here that will help and there has been stuff that I'm just plainly tired of reading that people just don't understand yet post it. Your grip isn't a problem in it's self! Any grip with bad timing will produce inconsistant results. I throw my putters 350'+ with a one finger fan grip! Always have, always will.

As albino mentined your timing is off, and you said yourself that you felt yur wrist wasn't "flinging" like it should. You need to go back and work on Hammer drills, it teaches you proper timing and wrist acceleration. All your problems will almsot fix themselves if you'd get the feeling of the hit, and learn to facilitate it. Learn the hammer drills, it teaches proper timing, and wrist accelerating for a reason. They make you feel it, and it puts your hit in a form you can easily replicate. So then when you hae that feeling it will be easier to assist. It will fix your timing, your pull, your wrist extension and all of that together increases accuracy and distance!

Another thing I'm so tired of reading is that distance and accuracy is mutually exclusive! They are not, they're both dependant on your form as each other. While one will generally be higher, as your distance will usually be higher total, but it's not always true. They both require practice and dedication to reach a higher standard. The part about this that people refuse to accept is that when you can drive 400', everything below that will be much more accurate because you don't have to try as hard as someome just throwing 350' to reach lesser distances. Same goes for anything above it. I could break it all down, but if you reach 500', your 400' drive will be much more accurate than someonethat maces out 400'.
Take someone driving 300', they say they're super accurate take soemone driving 450'. They can throw a disc that will ulimately reach the other players max distance with less effort, meaning they'd generally have a higher chance of s prong better. This doesn't even have to work for max distance. If the 300' player throws a Buzz for 200', the 450' will likely throw a putter for a 200' shot depending on the line needed. The ease of a 200' shot for the 450' player is as simple as a stand still toss. The 300' player would probably need a run up, or atleast an X-step. Bringing more variables, more chances for less accuracy.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:48 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:07 PM
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No, what gives you that impression?
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:10 PM
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