#61  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:59 AM
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tampabay tampabay is offline
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Originally Posted by DinosaurThunder View Post
Any forehand primary people throwing the AV3? How does it stack up?
I'm not primarily FH but I throw a lot of FHs. I think it's great for FH upshots and drives. I found the deeper putters are difficult to FH. You can't yank on it like you would a zone but I was able to get clean drives as well as clean upshots with it.

I will get out today and see how much I can put on it before it starts getting fussy
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  #62  
Old 03-29-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by booter View Post
back from hiatus to read some reviews about this putter after feeling one yesterday. it feels amazing and i cant wait to throw one today after reading some of these reviews.
welcome back booter!

I just went out and threw it. It feels amazing in the hand and flies exactly how I hoped... as much as I can tell from throwing it for 10 minutes.

background- P'n'As are my bread and butter putter. I throw mostly DX P'n'As but I also bag an XT and a Champ that get used for certain things. I've been leaning on the XT more and more. Depending on how the XT beats in I might make XT my go-to. If I need more finesse I have either a Sonic or a Polecat. If I need more beef I have DX and Champ Rhynos. I expect about 280-300' from a new-ish DX or XT Aviar drive. Sometimes I see longer but I don't count on it.

The Av3 is not noticeably faster than a standard DX Aviar P'n'A IMO.
Dedicated Aviar throwers will notice a stronger fade, though. Assuming 300' of Aviar power, brand new DX P'n'As usually start breaking away from the flight line after 70-75% of the flight. It begins as a gradual pull to the left (RHBH) and gets progressively stronger the longer it stays in the air. Av3s keep this trend but start the gradual pull earlier, maybe 65-70%. If you get enough height then you will notice a substantial amount of fade at the very end. I threw a few down hill and saw DX Sanny Rhyno amounts of fade... assuming I had the height.

I can't vouch for the wind performance because there was no wind.

I got one throw out past 330' on flat ground. When thrown down hill, Av3 will flat out bomb. 400' is not at all a stretch depending on the hill of course. Just watch out for the fade at the end. You either need to aim right to accommodate the fade or give it less height.

It rolls really well, better than my DX/XT P'n'As and marginally better than my Champ. I love how slowly it stands up.

Sidearming this Av3 is about the same as P'n'As. I prefer the safety of the extra fade and overstability. But My FH is straight up TERRIBLE so if this is important to you then you might want advice from a FH dominant thrower. I expect 180-200' out of my FH and use it primarily to get out of trouble or on short shots where FH is the obvious choice.

I cant speak about overhand throws because they hurt my shoulder. I'm positive I'm doing it wrong but I haven't tried to fix it. Not a priority for me.

So my first impression is that the Av3 is basically a lower profile, nicer hand-feel version of the Champ P'n'A in my bag. She's beefier and not as glidey as a DX P'n'A.

It's still early but from where I'm sitting right now, I call it a definite win for the Innova lineup and I can't wait to throw it more. Some one disc rounds and some Av3 vs P'n'A grudge match rounds are in the immediate plans.

I know I said this before I'm especially anxious for DX/XT and Champ!!! Please please pretty please?!?!?

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Last edited by Marmoset; 03-29-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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  #63  
Old 03-29-2017, 12:47 PM
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Oops, sorry for the double post but I forgot to mention that the HSS is definitely stronger than a new DX or XT P'n'A, and it appears to be even slightly stronger than my Champ which is 100% Grade A Beef. I need to throw the two side by side for a fair comparison.

I suspect this will hold up in the wind just fine and I agree with these two statements:

Quote:
Originally Posted by haier2 View Post
I'd think this disc will be a gateway for people who aren't seasoned with driving putters or only drive OS putters.

I think if people throw this disc it will gain a large following.
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  #64  
Old 03-29-2017, 12:59 PM
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thanks marmoset! for the review and welcoming
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:01 PM
icebat icebat is offline
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Can anyone who's thrown both, compare one of these to a challenger? Thinking about maybe picking up a new driving putter, but don't know how much different there would be between the two.
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Old 03-29-2017, 04:31 PM
SD86 SD86 is offline
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Originally Posted by icebat View Post
Can anyone who's thrown both, compare one of these to a challenger? Thinking about maybe picking up a new driving putter, but don't know how much different there would be between the two.
I've got Challengers in Titanium FLX, Pro-D, and Jawbreaker. Sadly, haven't had a chance to get a Cryztal Challenger. I have not thrown any of my Challengers with power very often, and not in a while, but I'd say they perform like P2s.

The Aviar3 is more overstable than the Challenger (as well as the P2). The Av3 also has a wee bit more "giddyup and go" than the Challenger. YMMV, of course.

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  #67  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:17 PM
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Well,I have to say that I am really impressed with this disc after throwing it today. Threw it side by side by side against my HB tank and my sp2. It does closest in stability to my tank but was a faster and had a little more glide. Its definitely got more hss and lss than an sp2 and feels say more comfortable. I will be picking one up for myself after getting some throws in today.
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  #68  
Old 03-30-2017, 09:07 AM
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I played a grudge match round, Av3 vs, Champ PandA.
I'm still going to say that Av3 acts an awful lot like the Champ but there are a few notable exceptions that I noticed.
---The Av3 likes lower lines.
---The Av3 is definitely just a tic faster.
---The Av3 wants to pull off of the original flight path earlier.
---The Av3 has a little more flare at the end if you give it enough height.
---I'm still trying to figure out if the HSS is more/less/the same as the Champ PandA. Maybe just a smidge more HSS?

I originally wanted to bag a Champ PandA so that I would have an overstable complement to my DX/XT assortment. I searched for and bought my Champ PandA specifically because it had the overstable shape. There were several that I didn't buy because I thought the shape was wrong. Now that the Av3 is here, you can buy an overstable Aviar without hunting.

Putting with the Av3 was fine. I definitely had to adjust from a normal DX PandA putt but I made almost all my putts. The ones I missed hit the lollipops. To be fair, I had the exact same problem with the Champ PandA. These two discs do not have the glide of the DX PandAs so I consistently came up just a tiny bit short unless I remembered to aim higher.

The pure-distance potential is roughly the same between the two. I give the edge to the Av3 if you are on the course, though. The lower lines it likes will keep you out of trouble better than the higher lines of the Champ PandA.

All in all I'm sticking with my original assessment that this is a huge win for Innova. Disc trends seem to be going towards faster, lower profile, beadless. IMO the Av3 is *eventually* going to be more popular than the big bead for slightly overstable putter needs; it might take a while for it to catch on but I think it will eventually sell better assuming Innova sells it in some good plastics that the tourney crowd appreciates.

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  #69  
Old 03-30-2017, 04:52 PM
RomServo RomServo is offline
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Originally Posted by Marmoset View Post
I played a grudge match round, Av3 vs Champ PandA...
I didnt realize the Panda came in Champ plastic.

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  #70  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RomServo View Post
I didnt realize the Panda came in Champ plastic.
LOL
I've been writing it as "P'n'A" for years until this AM I realized it spelled PandA. Now that's in the queue for my next Sharpie effort
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