#201  
Old 08-17-2019, 05:40 PM
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There's a few things I already want to start working on better to build on my success:

1. Work on getting my off arm quickly to my hip/side to increase my bodie's ability to rotate faster

2. Not sure how yet, but work on getting my follow through more around or even up and around my body. Still can't do that if I tried

3. Continue to work on throwing more nose down. Same as above, literally can't throw more nose down than I already am. No grip or anything else gives me more nose down angle. It's an absolute mystery how to throw more nose down

4. Work on continuing to get even more up on my toes in the X step and stay more on my toes and off of my back heel than I'm already doing

5. Start working this pendulum X walking X step throw into an actual X step with a little more speed and an actual hop a la GG

6. Work on keeping the disc tighter to my body for longer and releasing even later and from the inside
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  #202  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:03 PM
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Looks smoother. You are still hugging yourself a bit/pulling elbow forward from collapsed shoulder, and your front leg is planting pointed slightly open/flat footed which is why you get the yanks and break on the front leg instead of pivoting effortless into follow thru. Crush the Can, One Leg Drill.

2. Balance/posture. See vids in the The Hips thread link in my previous post, you are losing butt pressure or hip depth or Hogan Power Move.

3./6. I think your arm is finishing really low relative to your shoulder plane from hugging yourself and causes your nose issues/swing plane. I don't think you want to keep the disc close to body "longer", I focus on a quick redirection of the disc from my center. The disc starts from wide away at top of backswing and basically only the elbow bends to swing disc in narrow to center and then back wide to release, so the elbow is continually swinging in/out without pause to throw/sling the lower arm forward.


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  #203  
Old 08-18-2019, 11:39 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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That's an awesome jump in results for sure. Your balance over your legs is much better than before which I bet has a huge impact...you aren't blocking your body out any more by drifting the plant foot left. Like you said, it feels like you're striding straight but toward that leftward angle then releasing in a "griplock" or on a different line than you stride.

I don't like the arm angle on follow through either, like SW mentioned. Maybe try swinging some golf clubs lefty to feel how your right arm can finish upward and around your body, and let the disc golf throw be more up/around and free too. It seems crazy how finishing in this way could let you throw nose down, but I think what happens is you will have a more pure arc so it's easier to continue leveraging the disc for longer through the hit, so the back of the disc slings forward becoming the nose and staying "down" through the hit. It just works itself out.
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  #204  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Looks smoother. You are still hugging yourself a bit/pulling elbow forward from collapsed shoulder, and your front leg is planting pointed slightly open/flat footed which is why you get the yanks and break on the front leg instead of pivoting effortless into follow thru. Crush the Can, One Leg Drill.

2. Balance/posture. See vids in the The Hips thread link in my previous post, you are losing butt pressure or hip depth or Hogan Power Move.

3./6. I think your arm is finishing really low relative to your shoulder plane from hugging yourself and causes your nose issues/swing plane. I don't think you want to keep the disc close to body "longer", I focus on a quick redirection of the disc from my center. The disc starts from wide away at top of backswing and basically only the elbow bends to swing disc in narrow to center and then back wide to release, so the elbow is continually swinging in/out without pause to throw/sling the lower arm forward.
Thanks SW. So when you say I'm still hugging myself a bit still, you mean, my upper arm is still a little too close to my chest/body? Is this correct? And is a collapsed shoulder mean the same thing? That my right shoulder/upper arm is still too close to my chest? I need to work more on keeping the disc away from my chest longer, and only let it come in close super fast and redirect it out away from me? I'm using GG a lot lately as an example as he seems to have the more pedulum swing and more up and down body movement that creates more power with less effort. Same goes for Philo, yourself and some other players. Simple and effective.

And I guess I'm not being hyper specific enough with my idea on keeping the disc close. I mean, getting the disc closer at the chest, not the entire way. I see some screen captures of GG (who I've never really watched closely) and he gets the disc SOOO ridiculously close to his chest and tilted inwards before redirecting it out and down the line! It's insane. And now that I know (from you) that he is such a far thrower of the disc, I see why!

https://i.ibb.co/rG8BHMb/2.png
https://i.ibb.co/PC8SCyc/1.png

I will look more at the Hips thread in your previous post for more balance/posture issues. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by losing butt pressure and hip depth. But I'm sure it's in those videos?

Thanks
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  #205  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
That's an awesome jump in results for sure. Your balance over your legs is much better than before which I bet has a huge impact...you aren't blocking your body out any more by drifting the plant foot left. Like you said, it feels like you're striding straight but toward that leftward angle then releasing in a "griplock" or on a different line than you stride.

I don't like the arm angle on follow through either, like SW mentioned. Maybe try swinging some golf clubs lefty to feel how your right arm can finish upward and around your body, and let the disc golf throw be more up/around and free too. It seems crazy how finishing in this way could let you throw nose down, but I think what happens is you will have a more pure arc so it's easier to continue leveraging the disc for longer through the hit, so the back of the disc slings forward becoming the nose and staying "down" through the hit. It just works itself out.
Thanks SP! All of our discussions are finally working! YAY, haha. It's a great moment in this journey to throwing better for sure, and can't thank you, SW, HUB and others enough!

So yeah, the arm angle/follow through crap. I CAN follow through normally with a golf club, a softball bat, and even the disc, when I'm not throwing the actual disc. But as soon as throwing the disc enters the equation, and throwing it flat and straight, my arm just doesn't go around or up and around. It goes slightly down and around and I can't figure out how to stop this or do it correctly?

I can swing a bat or club lefty and have it go a little more up and around me, but not when throwing the disc. If I do that, it goes super high, instantly left, and with no distance and hyzers out at around 150-250 feet and way left. I know you just said it doesn't seem like it would make sense that going up and around in my finish would make the disc go nose down and flat. But when I try to do that, the results are horrible! So any ideas on HOW to do that, but still keep the disc flat and on a straight path is what I'm looking for now that I'm getting the actual distance part down a little better and feeling the whip a bit more. Thanks
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  #206  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:34 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
I can swing a bat or club lefty and have it go a little more up and around me, but not when throwing the disc. If I do that, it goes super high, instantly left, and with no distance and hyzers out at around 150-250 feet and way left. I know you just said it doesn't seem like it would make sense that going up and around in my finish would make the disc go nose down and flat. But when I try to do that, the results are horrible! So any ideas on HOW to do that, but still keep the disc flat and on a straight path is what I'm looking for now that I'm getting the actual distance part down a little better and feeling the whip a bit more. Thanks
You are probably getting early releases when doing that arc too, which will result in horrible skied early hyzers like you said. It won't work unless you get the full hit point.

So take it to an easier/lower power shot or even half putt-approach type swing. Make sure you feel the disc want to pivot or swing away from your hand, like how your wrists pull a baseball bat through the snap or release a hammer at that last part/arc of motion. If you can feel the disc sling out, even in a putting type motion, then enhance that sling feel.

You need to concentrate on that sling like it's the contact point of a ball, that's the important thing. If you don't get through the sling then it'll be an early release and the disc won't get pulled through on the line you want, so likely it will end up with the left side of the disc down for too much hyzer and too much nose up RHBH...getting that full pull through/sling will bring it through the rest of the way to get it onto the line you are intending.

You have to feel how to get that pivot/pull or arc in front of your body, that instantaneous sling and then the disc will continue to go in that direction through release. If you start with a putting or half putt half throw so that you can just feel that pop then you can keep adding power from there, and transition it into your full throw.
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  #207  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:44 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Thanks SW. So when you say I'm still hugging myself a bit still, you mean, my upper arm is still a little too close to my chest/body? Is this correct? And is a collapsed shoulder mean the same thing? That my right shoulder/upper arm is still too close to my chest? I need to work more on keeping the disc away from my chest longer, and only let it come in close super fast and redirect it out away from me?

I will look more at the Hips thread in your previous post for more balance/posture issues. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by losing butt pressure and hip depth. But I'm sure it's in those videos?

Thanks
Yes, collapsed and hugging are same.

I would say keep arm/disc wider away in backswing, rather than longer. Or your shoulders need to turn further back with same arm/disc position to widen the upper arm angle. Or both turn shoulders further and keep upper arm wider. And/or keep your butt pressure to the right - see Hips thread vids.

Forward swing should start slow as molasses swinging disc into center/power pocket from elbow bending and then quickly redirecting out away.

Note how far to the left KJ's top of the backswing is, so he creates a massive change of direction throughout the entire forward swing. Most the top throwers do this, but most notable in KJ.







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  #208  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:49 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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But as soon as throwing the disc enters the equation, and throwing it flat and straight, my arm just doesn't go around or up and around. It goes slightly down and around and I can't figure out how to stop this or do it correctly?

I can swing a bat or club lefty and have it go a little more up and around me, but not when throwing the disc. If I do that, it goes super high, instantly left, and with no distance and hyzers out at around 150-250 feet and way left. I know you just said it doesn't seem like it would make sense that going up and around in my finish would make the disc go nose down and flat. But when I try to do that, the results are horrible! So any ideas on HOW to do that, but still keep the disc flat and on a straight path is what I'm looking for now that I'm getting the actual distance part down a little better and feeling the whip a bit more. Thanks
Flat and straight don't exist.
What discs are you throwing?
What does your grip look like?
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  #209  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Yes, collapsed and hugging are same.

I would say keep arm/disc wider away in backswing, rather than longer. Or your shoulders need to turn further back with same arm/disc position to widen the upper arm angle. Or both turn shoulders further and keep upper arm wider. And/or keep your butt pressure to the right - see Hips thread vids.

Forward swing should start slow as molasses swinging disc into center/power pocket from elbow bending and then quickly redirecting out away.

Note how far to the left KJ's top of the backswing is, so he creates a massive change of direction throughout the entire forward swing. Most the top throwers do this, but most notable in KJ.
Thanks SW! I'll go through those videos and threads as I have time and work on that before I post another video. Gonna mostly be reading it looks like this whole week. Got super hot again, so i don't go outside unless it's 80 or under. Funny thing is, I feel like I "AM" keeping the disc wide and not hugging myself as much anymore. I think I've made good strides there. I guess you're just saying, I could do even better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Flat and straight don't exist.
What discs are you throwing?
What does your grip look like?
And I'm not sure I follow the first part here. That flat and straight don't exist? I throw flat and straight shots with discs all the time when I go out. And I see pros throw them as well. Obviously, I'm talking about field work mostly as well. When I go play, I only throw a flat/straight shot a few times a round as it's usually easier to just throw a hard high hyzer that will drop like a lawn dart right where I want. But I guess I measure my progress by how far, straight (or at least straight-ish), and flat I can throw when "working" on my throw in the field. Which has been about 95% of all my throwing. I've literally only played 4 times on a disc course.

As far as what disc am I throwing and my grip? Every disc I own will throw like how I described if I try and finish a little higher or a little more up and around.

And my grip is fine I'm pretty sure. I'll get a photo of some grips I use up here later so you can see. Usually the disc is almost or is 100% inline with my forearm as all the grip videos show. So I don't think it's my grip? But who knows?

I've tried tons and tons of ways of gripping the disc and have finally settled on 3 or so I use depending on the discs rim, the shot, or how hard or accurate I'm trying to throw. 3 Finger for more loosey goosey feel and more snap/whip on speed 7 or above discs. A modified fan grip almost identical to GG's for most throws where my index and pinky are in the rim, while the middle fingers fan onto the plate. And then sometimes on big rips with a speed 7 or higher disk, I'll use a good old fashioned power suitcase grip with my thumb a little more out onto the flight plate. All of them work but have slightly different feels upon release and are better or worse for different required shots.
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  #210  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:26 PM
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I've been making my way through this thread called "Shifting correctly makes bracing easy" and it's great stuff! And there is a response from SW to one of the posters that says:

Compression on the front leg initiates the forward swing. Crush the Can then swing. You should still be in compression/crushing the can into the finish. You can be extending while still compressing or increasing compression. Backswing should be uncompressed extended/tall/airborne, transition you get shorter and start to compress.

So the colored/bold words are what caught my attention and I have a question about. First of all, can you explain why it would make a difference if you landed on your foot more flat vs on your toe in regards to the throw? I don't care about the ergonomics or comfort or anything like that. I'm not interested in that. I just want to know, WHY is it important to land on your toe first, then crush the can?

Then, what is going on with "crush the can" that makes dropping your heel slightly later than your toe so important? I just realized I don't even know why we're supposed to do that. Just that SW says we should. Because it is much easier on your knees or something to land on your toe and then drop on to your heel. But I want to know what it adds or detracts from the throw if you do crush the can vs not crushing it and just dropping down flat footed or even on your heel in regards to the throw.
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