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Old 10-29-2018, 09:12 AM
littlej13 littlej13 is offline
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Default Missed Tee Time Question

So this was a very confusing situation that occurred in a tournament this weekend, and I'm curious to see how other people would have handled it.

After round 1, Player A and I decide to eat a quick lunch and then go look for his disc that went into the water in the first round. The TD announces a 1:20 start time (last card finished at 12:05), we eat quickly and head out to find the disc and practice a few holes. Unknowingly to either of us, the tee time was changed to 1:00 shortly after we left. We did not realize this until 2 minutes was called and we were 6 holes away from our starting hole.

We both start sprinting to the hole. I make it onto the fairway when start is called, but Player A has a cart and is nowhere close. When I get up to the tee we do what we should. Player B who is top of the card throws. We give player A 30 seconds before calling it and going to the third person who would be me. After I throw and the fourth person on the card throws, Player A arrives running towards us. It's here where we have no idea what to do. Rule 1.05E states that he should receive a par +4 since he missed his tee time. He is adamant against this as he was not responsible for missing the tee time. There's a lot of discussion back and forth before we decide to let him throw the hole under a provisional where he takes a 2. (Though I'm not sure a provisional should even be allowed in this situation). We take it to the TD immediately after who let's Player A keep the 2. Player A goes on to win the tournament by 2 strokes.

So 2 questions.
A) What should have we done in this situation?

B) Hypothetically, what would happen if I did not run ahead of Player A and we were both late to the hole. Neither of the other 2 players could tee at that point since you need at least 3 on a card and they would presumably be waiting on another group to attach to. So once we show up, would we just throw in order like normal. Or would Player A and I just have to both take par +4 while being witnesses for the other players scores on that first hole? Assume the mis-announced tee time didn't occur for this situation.
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:52 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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A) Sounds to me like what you did was spot on. Provisionals are used for one of two reasons. Either to save time (under certain conditions), or
Quote:
To appeal a ruling when there are different resulting lies. A set of provisional throws may be taken to complete a hole as part of an appeal when a player in the group disagrees with a group decision and an Official is not readily available
B) Ah well in this situation you...mumble mumble...mumble.
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Old 10-29-2018, 10:26 AM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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A) It sounds like pretty much everyone handled that particular situation correctly, except the TD who should have never changed the tee time once it was announced.

B) You and the other player get the penalty and serve as witnesses. But see A. This is a TD created mess.

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Old 11-19-2018, 06:37 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
A) It sounds like pretty much everyone handled that particular situation correctly, except the TD who should have never changed to an EARLIER tee time once it was announced.

B) You and the other player get the penalty and serve as witnesses. But see A. This is a TD created mess.
FTFY. I mean had he changed it to 1:30, that would have been OK, right?

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Old 11-19-2018, 10:26 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlej13 View Post
So this was a very confusing situation that occurred in a tournament this weekend, and I'm curious to see how other people would have handled it.

After round 1, Player A and I decide to eat a quick lunch and then go look for his disc that went into the water in the first round. The TD announces a 1:20 start time (last card finished at 12:05), we eat quickly and head out to find the disc and practice a few holes. Unknowingly to either of us, the tee time was changed to 1:00 shortly after we left. We did not realize this until 2 minutes was called and we were 6 holes away from our starting hole.

We both start sprinting to the hole. I make it onto the fairway when start is called, but Player A has a cart and is nowhere close. When I get up to the tee we do what we should. Player B who is top of the card throws. We give player A 30 seconds before calling it and going to the third person who would be me. After I throw and the fourth person on the card throws, Player A arrives running towards us. It's here where we have no idea what to do. Rule 1.05E states that he should receive a par +4 since he missed his tee time. He is adamant against this as he was not responsible for missing the tee time. There's a lot of discussion back and forth before we decide to let him throw the hole under a provisional where he takes a 2. (Though I'm not sure a provisional should even be allowed in this situation). We take it to the TD immediately after who let's Player A keep the 2. Player A goes on to win the tournament by 2 strokes.

So 2 questions.
A) What should have we done in this situation?

B) Hypothetically, what would happen if I did not run ahead of Player A and we were both late to the hole. Neither of the other 2 players could tee at that point since you need at least 3 on a card and they would presumably be waiting on another group to attach to. So once we show up, would we just throw in order like normal. Or would Player A and I just have to both take par +4 while being witnesses for the other players scores on that first hole? Assume the mis-announced tee time didn't occur for this situation.
It would come down to these two bolded sentences in my opinion. How close to the teepad was he when the last player exited the teeing area?

Quote:
Late-arriving players, for either Shotgun or Tee Time rounds, are responsible for checking with the TD, Tournament Central, or the Tee Time Starter to learn their correct starting group and are solely responsible for starting play with that playing group or the group created by the TD due to the player’s absence. The player will receive the par plus four score for each hole that the playing group has either completed or finished teeing on. Playing with any other group constitutes an attempt to gain a competitive advantage and is a disqualification.
If he was close enough to walk up and throw before another 30sec was counted, I think he should be good because you had not finished teeing off.
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Old 11-20-2018, 07:34 AM
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krupicka krupicka is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
If he was close enough to walk up and throw before another 30sec was counted, I think he should be good because you had not finished teeing off.
It's 30 seconds for his turn to throw, not 30 seconds from the time the group finishes teeing off.

811.F.5. Missed Hole Due to Late Arrival or Absence. If a player is not present to
throw when they are next in the throwing order, and remains absent for at
least 30 seconds, the player does not make any more throws on the hole.
The player’s score for the hole is par plus four.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:00 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
It's 30 seconds for his turn to throw, not 30 seconds from the time the group finishes teeing off.

811.F.5. Missed Hole Due to Late Arrival or Absence. If a player is not present to
throw when they are next in the throwing order, and remains absent for at
least 30 seconds, the player does not make any more throws on the hole.
The player’s score for the hole is par plus four.
That rule quoted seems to reinforce my opinion, thanks...
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:29 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
That rule quoted seems to reinforce my opinion, thanks...
Your opinion is that the player should be allowed to throw without penalty, correct?

By rule, if he is second in the teeing order, and his 30 seconds expire and the third player then takes his turn and throws, that's it for that hole. He missed his turn and he doesn't get a new 30 seconds just because he happens to walk up before the group departs the tee or even finishes teeing off.

Of course, lots of players and lots of groups will take liberty with the rule and let the player jump in and throw out of order as long as he gets to the tee before they depart it. But they are definitely bending if not breaking the rules in doing so.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:42 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Your opinion is that the player should be allowed to throw without penalty, correct?

By rule, if he is second in the teeing order, and his 30 seconds expire and the third player then takes his turn and throws, that's it for that hole. He missed his turn and he doesn't get a new 30 seconds just because he happens to walk up before the group departs the tee or even finishes teeing off.

Of course, lots of players and lots of groups will take liberty with the rule and let the player jump in and throw out of order as long as he gets to the tee before they depart it. But they are definitely bending if not breaking the rules in doing so.
Show me where it says that in the rule book and I will buy it...

At worst, after reading thru the rules for the second time, all I can see is him being given a courtesy violation for throwing out of order IF he is able to make his throw before 30sec is up. The rule book says "present" but doesn't define what present means(which is why I said if he is able to walk up and throw before 30sec has passed, he should not be given a par+4) and competition manual says once the group has finished teeing but doesn't elaborate on when exactly that happens...

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 11-20-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:38 PM
JoakimBL JoakimBL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Show me where it says that in the rule book and I will buy it...
Krupica quoted the exact rulle that says you are wrong. That is where it says it. Try reading it again. And the again. Repeat until you understand

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