#171  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:43 PM
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Yeah, while there is a lot of great info in the vid & thread on DGR, I'm not a big fan of the Right Pec Drill.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...13#post3184513
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  #172  
Old 07-16-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I've never been a fan of the Beto drill although it certainly clicks for some people. It's just strange taking the disc from no momentum to ejecting outward. The momentum of the disc coming in towards your body helps in feeling where to eject it.

Personally, I think learning a wide rail reachback is the easiest way to feel the difference between a rounded throw and an inside-out swing. Easiest way to feel a difference is to over-exaggerate it and then dial back from there (Paul McBeth quote/Seabas quote I don't remember which). If you try to throw from a wide rail reachback and the disc goes way right, you know are turning the hips/shoulders early and leaving the disc behind. It will feel different like you almost have to wait for the disc to get to the power pocket before you start trying to eject it.

This is in contrast to two handed swings where you end up with a "collapsed" front arm at the hit point (narrow upper arm angle) while in a disc golf throw the upper arm angle is much larger.
Exactly! Coming form golf and baseball (where my lead arm HAS to be close to my body) for SO long is just making this such a hard concept to pull off! You guys telling me to do it, and then me actually doing it, are two totally different worlds apart, haha.

And yeah, I do remember that quote from McBeth saying over exaggerate and then tone it back afterwards. You talking about IF I throw it right when on a wide rail is dead on! A few times in the last training session, when I did actually get and keep the disc out wide, it went pretty far, but right. And it felt a little easier than normal to get it that far. But it still felt off, and I know I'm still doing a lot of things wrong, because of where my feet and body are aligned, it shouldn't be going that far right. So that's great to hear! Thanks

And I agree with you about trying to learn the Wide Rail first. Then once I can feel how the disc is supposed to be, I can change things up if I want. My model thrower right now is going to be Philo and SW. They both have such easy simple swings with SUCH good results, and that would be much better for me right now than a more complicated type of throw. But I need to get there first. Baby steps

I noticed another guy while watching some pros play last night and LOVED this dudes throwing style! Very much like Simon, but without the MONSTER distance (still really good though). I think his name was Dustin Keegan? Beautiful throw and has that same little drop down hitch move like Simon that I feel adds more power, spin and speed to the disc? Anyways, love how they throw, but I need to work on a wide rail and keeping everything simple and fluid and timed well. I can worry about how I would love to throw later on, once I know HOW to throw, haha. Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it
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  #173  
Old 07-16-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
I noticed another guy while watching some pros play last night and LOVED this dudes throwing style! Very much like Simon, but without the MONSTER distance (still really good though). I think his name was Dustin Keegan? Beautiful throw and has that same little drop down hitch move like Simon that I feel adds more power, spin and speed to the disc? Anyways, love how they throw, but I need to work on a wide rail and keeping everything simple and fluid and timed well. I can worry about how I would love to throw later on, once I know HOW to throw, haha. Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it
There's really a lot to like about most of the top pros form and fundamentally it's all basically the same just with some slightly different idiosyncrasies and athletic ability. Dustin works on his technique a lot, he toured with McBeth one year and picked up a lot from him. I played a few rounds with Dustin and Oman and hung out all weekend, cool guys. They were in awe of my FH.

Matt Orum also has great form, learned a lot watching him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPIFCI9O6fo#t=32m20s


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  #174  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Yeah, while there is a lot of great info in the vid & thread on DGR, I'm not a big fan of the Right Pec Drill.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...13#post3184513
Wow, that ZJ1000 guy sure seems friendly! And he sounds like an expert as well, haha. One leg drill will HURT your knee??? No respectable golf pro has EVER taught a single lesson using that drill hahaha

Thanks SW for the link, I'll read through all that
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:01 PM
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Man, the more I read this, and really really think about it, the more I think I'm starting to understand how the disc needs to move in order to be thrown far, even from a standstill. Still not 100% how to do it, haha, but this is definitely helping me! I've read this more than a few times and it just goes in one ear and my brain doesn't truly understand it. But as time goes on, I think I'm understanding more finally.

I THINK I'm supposed to be pulling the disc into my body kind of slow and only once it's near me, THEN opening my shoulders and trying to really throw it? So It kind of hovers and doesn't move as far when it goes from the reach back to my chest? Or at least not very fast until it gets near my chest? Then I'm redirecting the disc out, down the line and eventually my arm goes around and really using the momentum of my entire body, as well as the stored up energy (rubber band feel) to really SLING it away from me? I just don't know why I can't do this yet? I know what it looks like and everyone tells me how to do it, but actually doing it is proving to be much harder than I thought. But articles like this and all the stuff from SW are slowly starting to seep into my brain and make sense, haha.

http://www.heavydisc.com/2015/04/dus...lders-off.html
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  #176  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I've never been a fan of the Beto drill although it certainly clicks for some people. It's just strange taking the disc from no momentum to ejecting outward. The momentum of the disc coming in towards your body helps in feeling where to eject it.

Personally, I think learning a wide rail reachback is the easiest way to feel the difference between a rounded throw and an inside-out swing.
I think that's the point of the Beto Drill. Not as much the throwing from nothing, but turning the shoulder back with the upper arm angle in tact, and throwing from there. Same with the closed shoulder drill. Learning to use your arm as a whip with the "hand" being the shoulder joint. The rest is collapsing and releasing which happens pretty naturally once you get the basis of how your trying to throw with your shoulders and upper arm.

I really like how Dunipace puts it "[you don't have to reach back], cus your just going to have to come in here anyway" https://youtu.be/L1PHi-zgXIY?t=28

It's a fundamental OP has to get before the rest makes sense. I think he'd benefit from learning to throw upshots like Brad Williams does a Nova before trying to throw like Eagle/Simon throwing PD2's. https://youtu.be/h74jibJn2Yk?t=114

Last edited by billyjacko; 07-18-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 01:55 PM
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I've done the Beto drill quite a few times when I was first starting out back in the Spring. But like I said, it never did anything for me, or teach me anything. I think I was too new to throw and all it did was make me throw short and left. I'll have to try it some more when I go out and see if it starts to make more sense now that I've been throwing for a little while and understanding things a little better. Or it still might not be useful. But it's worth a try.

And what about this drill from BW's? Does anyone here that really knows what their talking about think this is correct? The closed shoulder and wrist SNAP drill? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LffYBb1vQjQ&t=10s

It seems two fold to my mind. One the one hand, it does seem like it could add distance because of the wrist snapping through the hit. But on the other hand, I can't perceive this motion in any pro players throwing motions? And that could be because they don't do it, or because it happens so fast, that it's super hard to catch it on film?

Mostly from what I've read though, it seems like I should NOT be trying to actively snap my wrist from curled way around the disc to forward? That the wrist should more or less be neutral and get a slight stretch back and then forward from momentum (act like a stiff rubber band), not from the player actively TRYING to snap their wrist? Seems like it might add more distance but also make the throw wildly inconsistent?
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  #178  
Old 07-18-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
I've done the Beto drill quite a few times when I was first starting out back in the Spring. But like I said, it never did anything for me, or teach me anything. I think I was too new to throw and all it did was make me throw short and left. I'll have to try it some more when I go out and see if it starts to make more sense now that I've been throwing for a little while and understanding things a little better. Or it still might not be useful. But it's worth a try.

And what about this drill from BW's? Does anyone here that really knows what their talking about think this is correct? The closed shoulder and wrist SNAP drill? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LffYBb1vQjQ&t=10s

It seems two fold to my mind. One the one hand, it does seem like it could add distance because of the wrist snapping through the hit. But on the other hand, I can't perceive this motion in any pro players throwing motions? And that could be because they don't do it, or because it happens so fast, that it's super hard to catch it on film?

Mostly from what I've read though, it seems like I should NOT be trying to actively snap my wrist from curled way around the disc to forward? That the wrist should more or less be neutral and get a slight stretch back and then forward from momentum (act like a stiff rubber band), not from the player actively TRYING to snap their wrist? Seems like it might add more distance but also make the throw wildly inconsistent?
I think everyone who throws far snaps/whips their wrist passively. Tip of the whip like Dave Dunipace says. That is also Beto and Closed Shoulder drill in a nutshell imo. Move your body so that your wrist whips the disc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_iLAQnOsRY

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  #179  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:03 AM
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So not a whole lot of progress to report or show since last post. I've only been out in the field like 3 times maybe and played two rounds since I was last on here. It's been way too hot to play or practice most days.

The only thing is that I'm getting a little more consistency in my stand still throws and the mid range distance has become much more repeatable in the higher distance range. I was sporadically throwing anywhere from 230-280 and all over the place with most of my mids, now almost every single throw is pretty good accuracy and always 250-280. FW's are always 280-320. So that's good I guess. And it's not quite as hard to get that distance. I'm starting to feel a little bit of the delayed whip feeling. The opposite side of the disc feeling heavier and whipping around at the last second. And it shows in the throws. Most have good trajectory and more spin when they land. Certain slightly lower shots skipping forward when they hit.

But on X step throws nothing has got better. I even shortened up to just a slow 3 step (right foot first sideways, then X step left behind, the plant right). Still all over the place in every which way. Some throws go dead pull right and into the ground at 200', while every once and awhile I do some things right and I get it out around 340 or a tad farther occasionally. But I feel it's nowhere near as repeatable as the stand still throws and not that much farther. It also always feels off. No matter how hard I try, I always feel like I'm leaning back to far when doing an X step vs a Stand Still throw. I can't get my weight onto my toes and my hips/butt forward out of the X step. I can only do that moderatly well on the stand still throws. And those 340 or farther throws are with my Fairway discs, so speed 7's and a 9, not mids. My goals for this year are mids 300 and fairly accurate. FW's 360 and fairly accurate.

Then I'm having a really annoying issue creep into my throw lately that I can't figure out and need help with, that seems to be coinciding with my ability to throw better and with more whip. DEAD PULL YANKS! Like really bad! 50-100' right of where I'm aiming and I almost lost a few discs on the course from these horrific throws. And it happens in the field at least 25% of the time or more. Normal everything, not trying to give it 100% and BAM! DEAD YANK RIGHT. Some of them super high and into the trees lining the side of the football field. Other times just a straight low pull that turns into a roller within 100-200'. NO IDEA how this is happening, especially when it's happening around and in between other really good throws. Maybe I'm not extending fully out from the power pocket? I have been getting better at holding the disc later into my chest and from the inside. So maybe on certain throws, I'm doing that well, but then not extending out and away from my body at the hit? Not sure. I'll try to get video of my throws in the next week or so.

Any ideas on why a jump up in form and distance is also coinciding with horrific yanks? Thanks
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  #180  
Old 08-13-2019, 11:56 AM
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Usually those are from opening the chest/torso too early before using the arm...like being a bit to eager to throw. Then when the arm swings to the same relative release point to where your torso is at, it's WAY right.

It'd be easiest to spot in some video why you're more likely to do that. I was also way more likely to griplock right when I drifted my plant step across the teepad to the left too much...it'd block my body and sometimes I'd overcompensate by really rotating my body too much to throw or else the disc would feel like it hooked on my fingers or some weird things like that occasionally. The more in line and balance I'm keeping my momentum into the plant, the disc feels like it goes forward on the same line with its own momentum and I sling the back edge of the disc down the target line through the hit. Way less likely to griplock now.

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