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Old 01-22-2016, 09:23 AM
Sorg67 Sorg67 is offline
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Default Disc flight rating

Is there a way to estimate the flight rating for various discs at different speeds?

For example a Saint is 9 6 -1 2

So could it be similar to 8 6 0 3?

Or is the fade the fade since it is at the slower end so it might be more like 8 6 0 2?

Or is it just not designed to function at all at less than 9 speed?

And would you use lighter weight if you have trouble achieving the speed necessary to produce the flight characteristics?

I am currently planning to focus on a 168 g Saint (9 6 -1 2).

But I am wonder if my 156 g Jade would be a better choice for me (9 6 -2 2)

I abandoned the Jade because it tended to turnover too much. I thought I was developing better technique and more power - too much for Jade. But a good throw for me is anything over 250 ft. 300 ft is about my max but I do not hit that too often.

I used a 174 g River (7, 7, -1,1) for a while and got a few 300 ft throws with that. But I had a hard time getting it to fade controlably and sometimes it turned over into a roller when I tried to throw it hard.

I am sure some (okay probably all) of this is due to improper technique. I think I produce some anhyzer on my follow through. I am working on flat throws with flat follow through. But often when I follow through, I turn it into the ground.

Anyway, I digress. Not looking for technique advice. I want to figure that out for myself. Looking to understanding the relationship between speed and turn better.

Also, I kind of like the feel of that wide rims you find on the faster discs. Are there any discs with wide rims but slower speeds? Or are those mutually exclusive?
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:40 AM
DiscGolfChris DiscGolfChris is offline
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From my understanding the high speed turn rating is all relative to speed so throwing at the speed listed is the recommended way to achieve the listed turn. With more power the initial high speed turn may be greater but no matter how hard you throw the disc originally, its speed will always approach zero toward the end and as it does so it should revert to the estimated low speed fade. At that point the shape and strength of the fade is often more related to angle of the disc than it is to other factors (obviously wind will have other effects).

Since the fade is the last part of the flight it is also affected by more variables that the turn at the beginning of the flight so to achieve a consistent fade you typically need to find a way to have a more consistent flight at the beginning. Also, the more overstable a fade is, the more likely it is to overcome the additional variables so more stable discs have a tenancy to be more consistent. But that consistency is just one advantage, there are also disadvantages that you should weigh against.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:50 AM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sorg67 View Post
Is there a way to estimate the flight rating for various discs at different speeds?

And would you use lighter weight if you have trouble achieving the speed necessary to produce the flight characteristics?

I am sure some (okay probably all) of this is due to improper technique. I think I produce some anhyzer on my follow through. I am working on flat throws with flat follow through. But often when I follow through, I turn it into the ground.

Anyway, I digress. Not looking for technique advice. I want to figure that out for myself. Looking to understanding the relationship between speed and turn better.

Also, I kind of like the feel of that wide rims you find on the faster discs. Are there any discs with wide rims but slower speeds? Or are those mutually exclusive?

First, the flight numbers are relative and somewhat subjective. IMHO they're decent for making disc comparisons as well as knowing what the disc will do, but they're not perfect nor are they standardized.

Second, it sounds to me like you're developing better form and more speed on your discs; ergo, you're turning the understable ones more. You might move to the next-more-stable disc in that speed range and find your new happy medium.

Third, for longer distances, I am finding that lighter weights will help, but you lose a huge amount of control. And sometimes ligher weights mean more understability and the discs get flippy.

Last, the wide rims are part of what gives a disc its speed designation... so you're likely not going to find lower speed discs with very wide rims like the Boss. But you might try getting a Vulcan (understable) and not throwing it at full power and see if it works for you....

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Old 01-22-2016, 10:35 AM
Sorg67 Sorg67 is offline
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But you might try getting a Vulcan (understable) and not throwing it at full power and see if it works for you....
Yes, that is what I was thinking. Vulcan is 13 5 -4 2. Let's say I got that in a light weight and threw it at 9 speed, would it behave more like 9 5 -1 2?

Or would it just not perform since I am trying to make it do something it is not designed to do?

It seems more speed creates less stability. So what is the difference between a high speed understable disc and a low speed stable disc?

Maybe I will give the Vulcan a try and see if I can figure it out for myself.
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:42 AM
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Yes, that is what I was thinking. Vulcan is 13 5 -4 2. Let's say I got that in a light weight and threw it at 9 speed, would it behave more like 9 5 -1 2?
Or would it just not perform since I am trying to make it do something it is not designed to do?
It seems more speed creates less stability. So what is the difference between a high speed understable disc and a low speed stable disc?
Maybe I will give the Vulcan a try and see if I can figure it out for myself.
Here's the thing: you don't throw at "Speed 9"... you throw at 100% of your power, 80% of your power, 50% of your power, etc. What will make the Vulcan work the way you want is going to be dependent on you, how you throw, etc. Obviously, you'll have to work with it to see what it does.

Also, I would recommend against getting a lighter weight disc. Get what is in your comfort zone.

If you watch the videos from https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVc...pw1sku5HLsVaJw "Best Disc Golf Discs" on Youtube, you'll get more answers to your questions about differences in discs, etc.

Last edited by SD86; 01-22-2016 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:55 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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1 post of well thought out questions and 3 posts of 'stay on topic' good answers! Let's keep it going. I'll add that I agree with most everything said and will add that you may not get a 5 Vulcan glide (maybe a little less) due to a bit of a HS driver's 'glide' may be attributed to the extra lift it gets from having a large wing...and at slower speeds it won't come into effect as much.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:05 AM
Sorg67 Sorg67 is offline
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Great you tube video on speed. Thanks.

Seems to say that the fundamental nature of wide rim is high speed and therefore there are no wide rim slower speed discs. Although they mention a manufacturer that is using different plastic density to better control the distribution of the weight. They are trying to position it more to the outside, but it would seem that you could also use the high density plastic to move the weight inside.

For somebody who does not throw fast like me but who would like a more aerodynamic disc with a wider rim it would seem that a disc with the shape of a fast disc but with the lower moment of inertia (weight toward the center) of a slow disc - to get it to spin with less snap might work well.

Make sense?
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sorg67 View Post
Great you tube video on speed. Thanks.

Seems to say that the fundamental nature of wide rim is high speed and therefore there are no wide rim slower speed discs. Although they mention a manufacturer that is using different plastic density to better control the distribution of the weight. They are trying to position it more to the outside, but it would seem that you could also use the high density plastic to move the weight inside.

For somebody who does not throw fast like me but who would like a more aerodynamic disc with a wider rim it would seem that a disc with the shape of a fast disc but with the lower moment of inertia (weight toward the center) of a slow disc - to get it to spin with less snap might work well.

Make sense?
I haven't worked out the physics, but the weight has to be towards the outside for better stable-ness (as opposed to the disc golf term of stability) and for the disc to fly well.

A second point is that if you don't throw with *snap* (by that I don't mean raw power nor speed, but the *snap* to get the disc spinning), then the disc is simply not going to perform, and it will start fading right out of your hand then crash and burn. A disc flies because it is presenting a wing to the atmosphere, and the faster it rotates and keeps that wing to the air, the better it flies.

Smarter guys have already figured all this out, so don't overthink it, just enjoy the videos and go find the discs that work for you...
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:29 AM
Sorg67 Sorg67 is offline
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Over-thinking could be the tag line for my life.... hahaha.....

I am trying to keep the game simple fun and feel oriented. I am trying to keep only a few discs in regular usage that I am comfortable with.

But I enjoy getting a new disc and experimenting with it. And I enjoy the process of understanding the physics of what is going on. Don't want to get a lot of mechanical thoughts in my head.

Cool that you can pick up a new driver for $15, go out to a field and check it out. Much better than shelling out $400 for a ball golf driver and spending $20 at a driving range to check it out.

Disc golf has ball golf beat in every way imaginable in my book....

But back to the thread topic. I have a 7 speed River with -1 turn and a 9 speed Saint with -1 turn. The River is harder for me to throw hard. When I do, I tend to turn in right into the ground. Doubt I am throwing the River too fast. Probably poor technique.

Actually, come to think of it. I have had some long throws with my River that have gone the wrong way when I have tried to hyzer but it has turned over on me. I wonder if that is something I could work into a longer distance driving technique.... hmmmmm.......

Could these throws be accidental hyzer flips?
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:14 PM
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ThomasOrion ThomasOrion is offline
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It most definitely is not that simple to take a High speed disc, and 'Tone it down' to get those other respective flight numbers. There are many different speeds of discs, stabilities of discs, and styles/designs for a reason. Otherwise we'd all be throwing destroyers on every throw and just changing the power we give it.

Just cover the bases:

Understable, Stable, Overstable

and in Putter/Approach, Midrange, Fairway, and Distance Drivers....a solid bag for any level of competition is usually around 12 discs....COMPLETELY not neccessary, you can be more casual and toss just a few discs.

But really to give yourself the ability to hit a better line, to finish with the disc landing closer to the pin. US, S, OS discs in at least a few speed ranges.
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