#11  
Old 09-12-2018, 04:13 PM
Tepi Tepi is offline
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This right here is gold, I can't wait to start working on it!
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2018, 04:21 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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Love this video. Really clarifies what you were trying to say to us in the other thread. Sometimes a visual really bridges the gap of understanding (which is why I love the way SW22 does things).

As for the elbowing down the door thing: I think it's advice people give in order to force elbow extension. However, it ends with what BW said (SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HYZER...)

It really helps me if I think about it like this instead: Get into an athletic position and get the disc in the power pocket with your elbow forward like it should be. Now, without moving your shoulder joint, extend your lower arm (say hello to the hit, approx. 45 degrees left of target like BW says). Now rotate your upper body without moving your arm until you're in a wide reachback position. Say hello to your backswing. Now rotate as if you were throwing your disc slowly, but keep your shoulder joint static (never closes, even a little bit) and allow the elbow to be somewhat loose. You should feel the rotation force your elbow closed a little bit and then SNAP back to straight right to the hit point you addressed before.

THAT is how you feel snap. Keep speeding it up and build it into your throw.

SW22 helped me come to this epiphany with his most recent hammer throw/stop hugging yourself videos.

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  #13  
Old 09-12-2018, 04:29 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by Discusted View Post
Yes I've never really understood elbowing down the door, I figured that'd be something I worked on later after working on other things. Now I'm wondering if that "Elbow down the door" advice should really be "Elbow down the door, but that door is 45 degrees left of target"? Or is a forceful elbowing not really needed at all?
It has kind of gotten me off to where I am now pulling straight through, collapsing shoulder and little arc. trying to really drive my elbow at the target along the lines of one of the videos with Lizzotte and Eagle where Simon is saying to really drive the elbow. I have felt in that video and a few others from pros that they aren't actually teaching the right thing because they are naturally doing stuff but they aren't sure what they are doing and as we've said so much feel ain't real so they just tell us what they think they are doing based on how it feels to them.
They are doing something different and better than what they relay and bad habits are created trying to mimic that.

Someone's critique thread got me on the right track a few months ago, but I've been unable to actually put it into practice and all of this just reaffirms it.

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Old 09-12-2018, 04:52 PM
Jackparadise1084 Jackparadise1084 is offline
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Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
Love this video. Really clarifies what you were trying to say to us in the other thread. Sometimes a visual really bridges the gap of understanding (which is why I love the way SW22 does things).

As for the elbowing down the door thing: I think it's advice people give in order to force elbow extension. However, it ends with what BW said (SHOULDER OPEN, ELBOW RIGHT, I ARM RIGHT, NOSE UP HYZER...)

It really helps me if I think about it like this instead: Get into an athletic position and get the disc in the power pocket with your elbow forward like it should be. Now, without moving your shoulder joint, extend your lower arm (say hello to the hit, approx. 45 degrees left of target like BW says). Now rotate your upper body without moving your arm until you're in a wide reachback position. Say hello to your backswing. Now rotate as if you were throwing your disc slowly, but keep your shoulder joint static (never closes, even a little bit) and allow the elbow to be somewhat loose. You should feel the rotation force your elbow closed a little bit and then SNAP back to straight right to the hit point you addressed before.

THAT is how you feel snap. Keep speeding it up and build it into your throw.

SW22 helped me come to this epiphany with his most recent hammer throw/stop hugging yourself videos.
Any chance you have a pic or video walking through your description? I’m trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanics and I think what you’re saying would help a ton. Thank you!
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:55 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackparadise1084 View Post
Any chance you have a pic or video walking through your description? I’m trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanics and I think what you’re saying would help a ton. Thank you!
Yeah I'll see if I can get a video together tonight. It's super helpful and the best way I've found to demonstrate the SNAP feeling you should get in the throw.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
It has kind of gotten me off to where I am now pulling straight through, collapsing shoulder and little arc. trying to really drive my elbow at the target along the lines of one of the videos with Lizzotte and Eagle where Simon is saying to really drive the elbow. I have felt in that video and a few others from pros that they aren't actually teaching the right thing because they are naturally doing stuff but they aren't sure what they are doing and as we've said so much feel ain't real so they just tell us what they think they are doing based on how it feels to them.
They are doing something different and better than what they relay and bad habits are created trying to mimic that.

Someone's critique thread got me on the right track a few months ago, but I've been unable to actually put it into practice and all of this just reaffirms it.
I think the problem is the elbow forward advice only helps if you already know and understand the feeling of snap.

If you do it before you know what snap should be/feel like, it causes the shoulder and small arc issue BW mentions in the video.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:11 PM
Bradley Walker Bradley Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Yep I know that one.

What do you feel is over your front foot...your head/upper spine, your shoulder, your elbow? How far forward are you trying to get?

It defines itself. Let the idea define itself. Let it change your body without you thinking about it. So, do what I said... and just feel what your body does. Let the body support the movement.

When you get your shoulder, elbow and arm to arc AROUND you head (not collapsing to the right with an open shoulder) you will be rotating over your forward hip joint. The foot is relative.

Collapse leads to the front hip STOPPING trying to go right to follow the SHOULDER. This is what I call a JAMB or a stall.

On the other hand, a forward arc, that feels like 45 left makes the hip rotate, and lead the shoulder, which almost stops for a split second.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:24 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackparadise1084 View Post
Any chance you have a pic or video walking through your description? I’m trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanics and I think what you’re saying would help a ton. Thank you!
Here's my one-take stab at doing what he is describing. Ignore me at the end going too fast and opening my shoulders too early, lol. If I could do it well I'd be throwing a lot better!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yKeGq48JBtVzgRWw8

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Old 09-12-2018, 05:33 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
Here's my one-take stab at doing what he is describing. Ignore me at the end going too fast and opening my shoulders too early, lol. If I could do it well I'd be throwing a lot better!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yKeGq48JBtVzgRWw8
Yep. That's pretty darn close, maybe a little wider than necessary, but then again maybe not.. Really helps define those positions and start to get the feel for the right throw and snap.

Oh, and when you turn back, you're using mostly your hips not your shoulders. I'm guessing you just misspoke a bit.

Realistically, your shoulder will be forced closed slightly because of the rotation... and also, your hips are opening so the hit is actually a LITTLE further forward.

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Last edited by drk_evns; 09-12-2018 at 05:37 PM.
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  #20  
Old 09-12-2018, 05:34 PM
thirtydirtybirds thirtydirtybirds is offline
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Ok so I didn’t have a lot of time this afternoon, but I did go out in the yard and try this for about 20 throws. Nice and slow, focused on hitting the pocket then extending out left in a wide arc.

I didn’t hit it right every time, but the ones I did came out fast, nose stayed down without me having to force it down, and tons more spin. I actually felt the disc forcefully leaving my grip. Most interestingly and probably beneficial to me, is it forced a more proper brace. Hips opened first naturally, and I felt my heel dig down as I rotated, follow through was with centered weight.

This for sure warrants more practice and has me excited. I kind of backed off my form lately, I got a bit discouraged with little progress. This makes the other stuff I’ve been working on make more sense. Thank you for this.
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