#1  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:25 PM
shawnsinclair shawnsinclair is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Courses Played: 74
Posts: 24
Niced 0 Times in 0 Posts
Exclamation Potential tech standards changes?

I wanted to wait until the minutes from the spring summit were posted before bring up this subject. It was only given a couple of lines in the minutes but I would like to explain what happened. First here is a copy of what is in the minutes:

Harold discussed the sustainability of disc golf. He suggests the technical standards re-evaluate the high
speed, heavy weight drivers.
The USDGC and Innova would strongly support the initiative. The USDGC would be glad to be a test bed
if the association requested.
MOTION –Decker/McCoy
Motion that we direct the tech standards committee to look into the sustainability issue relative to our
equipment standards.
Motion passes unanimously.


First off this presentation was given by Harold Duvall co-owner of Innova Discs. Although he was on the agenda this issue that he talked about was not an agenda item???

I am going to paraphrase and summarize his presentation. He explained how disc golf has affected his life from being a world champion, disc company owner, course designer, TD and a few other items I don't remember. He pulled a hat out of a duffel bag for each aspect of the above items and set them on a stool. He said this stack of hats represents my life and career. He proceed to take a stack of max weight high speed drivers and threw the whole stack at the hats and knocked them off the stool. He then said heavy, sharp, and wide rim discs are ruining everything he has worked his entire life for and our sport can not sustain this model.

I was the only person who asked a question, which was do you have any data, evidence, or testing to backup your statements? He said "No and we don't want any". Then Bob Decker made a motion that is written above.

I have some questions.

1. Are you the players ok with the owner of the largest disc manufacturing company in our sport making a recommendation to the board about changing disc tech standards without all manufactures having a say?

2. What are the reasons for Innova making these recommendations?

3. Would our sport be the safer if all discs were 150 class and no sharper than a midrange? Would you want to get hit in the face with this disc by Ricky or Catrina?

4. Would our sport be better or worse it we went backwards in technology?
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:29 PM
the_pwnerator's Avatar
the_pwnerator the_pwnerator is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Frankenmuth, MI
Years Playing: 8.1
Courses Played: 23
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 921
Niced 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

What....

So basically he wants to get rid of high speed drivers but gives no reason as to why?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:33 PM
The Hammer's Avatar
The Hammer The Hammer is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Years Playing: 10.5
Courses Played: 36
Posts: 4,693
Niced 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

So the co-owner of the company that has pushed high-speed drivers more than any other, has a problem with high-speed drivers. WTF. Was he high?

Great idea! Lets take out the only thing that has "wow factor" out of the game.

Last edited by The Hammer; 06-13-2013 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:35 PM
5QU166Y's Avatar
5QU166Y 5QU166Y is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: DFW
Years Playing: 7
Courses Played: 223
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,334
Niced 25 Times in 14 Posts
Default

And here I thought they were going to raise the max weight and make the permitted values of the flex test inversely proportional to the sharpness of the disc's rim. But seriously, didn't Japan try this nonsense once, and it didn't go over well?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:43 PM
Halcón's Avatar
Halcón Halcón is offline
Free at Last
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Years Playing: 8.1
Courses Played: 1
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,847
Niced 1,033 Times in 525 Posts
Default

Considering the PDGA (supposedly) approved the Prometheus to 200 grams, this is odd. I like it, but it's odd coming from Duvall.

I've been talking safety around here for a while, and I'm not alone. This is good for the game, if only to put the issue front and center.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:46 PM
DavidInIowa DavidInIowa is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southeast Iowa
Posts: 124
Niced 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I am an unskilled noob and my opinion doesn't matter, but I also have a big ego so I'll share it.

If the future of disc golf at the professional level should be "real athletes" performing great feats of both skill and strength then high speed drivers make sense. I believe that this is best.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:46 PM
joegraham's Avatar
joegraham joegraham is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon
Years Playing: 35.1
Courses Played: 111
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 728
Niced 13 Times in 10 Posts
Default

What is "sustainability" to mean, and what will the committee actually do? Send us a survey?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:50 PM
x-out x-out is offline
Bogey Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 99
Niced 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsinclair View Post

1. Are you the players ok with the owner of the largest disc manufacturing company in our sport making a recommendation to the board about changing disc tech standards without all manufactures having a say?

2. What are the reasons for Innova making these recommendations?

3. Would our sport be the safer if all discs were 150 class and no sharper than a midrange? Would you want to get hit in the face with this disc by Ricky or Catrina?

4. Would our sport be better or worse it we went backwards in technology?
1. seems like everyone would be against changing standards, but if your the largest company, it will probably hit you worse than anyone else. think of all the stock they have that will not meet these standards.

2. they are an evil corporation that wants to destroy disc golf!!! probably not. they are probably thinking of safety and being an ethically responsible business. please reread and notice i said responsible business. responsible business is still a business.

3. i don't think anyone wants to be hit by any disc thrown by anyone. if the new standards mean a safer product in a worst case scenario, then i'd probably be on board. was there any mention of 150 only and shapes?

4. what makes you think this would be a step backwards in tech? maybe the new standards will have equal to or greater performance than what we currently have.

message board conspiracy theories want to paint innova as an evil corporation that controls the pdga and will kill disc golf. if they are making suggestions it means one or both of the following. they feel current standards aren't safe enough and/or they know something about design that hasn't been addressed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:53 PM
AndyJB's Avatar
AndyJB AndyJB is offline
Big Country
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Disc Golf Mecca: Colorado
Years Playing: 28.1
Courses Played: 52
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 5,955
Niced 184 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5QU166Y View Post
And here I thought they were going to raise the max weight and make the permitted values of the flex test inversely proportional to the sharpness of the disc's rim. But seriously, didn't Japan try this nonsense once, and it didn't go over well?
Japan is still pretty strict about 150-class discs. Many of the courses you cannot even play with discs higher than 159 grams even for casual rounds...not sure how they figure it out if you are throwing them but whatever.

I dont know if it makes it safer at all. I also dont really follow the destroying the game logic. It is perhaps moving the game away from the original vision, but thats evolving...not destroying. My only thought would be because there is such a huge gap between touring pros and other tournament players, and then another huge gap between serious players and casual players as far as distance goes? I have noticed that more and more courses are getring away from the wooded, many obstacle formats and going longer...Turkey Creek in Colorado is a perfect example of a course that is just stupid long with hardly any obstacles. You basically just grip it and rip it for 18 holes of nonsense. The shortesr hole is somewhere around 350 and the longest is around 800. It was specifially designed as a "pro level" course...but no one ever plays there and this summer will be the first sanctioned tournament held there. I think Jared Roan, Pat Blazek and maybe Mitch Sonderfan are goinf to be the only top-level pros playing in it.

I digress. Without seeing or hearing the full presentation or even knowing what Innova is propo
Reply With Quote
 

  #10  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:53 PM
joegraham's Avatar
joegraham joegraham is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oregon
Years Playing: 35.1
Courses Played: 111
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 728
Niced 13 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Do we want to go back to wooden tennis racquets, bamboo pole vaulting, no suspension mountain bikes, persimmon wooden golf drivers too, Converse Chuck Taylors? Hell no! Technology and innovation has driven the markets in all sports and we have the absolute limits allowable, so why change. I don't want to see 500 foot distance competitions.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Design Standards curmudgeonDwindle Course Design 8 09-23-2018 08:52 PM
All Innova Bag w/o the Standards the1discChallenge Bag Suggestions & Feedback 37 06-24-2016 10:43 PM
Question about Disc Standards screwluse Newbie Intros and Q&A 8 12-09-2014 07:15 AM
Tournament standards - A tier patdb23 General Disc Golf Chat 0 09-06-2011 12:44 PM
Target Visibility Standards zenbot Other Gear 10 06-30-2011 11:39 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.