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View Poll Results: Should the PDGA allow opting out of player packs?
Yes 24 48.98%
No 25 51.02%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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  #91  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:49 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jah Plastifari View Post
It took me awhile to find the file, but I thought I remembered this from the Excel TD report:

Ams or Pros may enter an Am division for 1/3 to 1/2 of full entry fee if TD allows it and just compete for trophies only.

Does anyone know if this is still an option for TD's?

I don't remember anyone ever offering this option. As a TD I probably wouldn't want to either for the same reasons given for optional players packs. As a player I would like to have this option, but I'm not holding my breath that it will ever happen.
We offered it as a player option here on and off over a period of years. It was not popular. I attribute that partially to the fact that our entry fees have always been reasonable to begin with. It was a bit of a pain in the butt from the TD side.

On the other hand I have run some super cheap C tiers ($10) the last couple years with the trophy only format and they have been well attended.
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  #92  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:52 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Somebody who has access to the Tournament Manager would need to check and see if this option made it from the Excel file into the online system.
The option is there.
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  #93  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:59 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
We offered it as a player option here on and off over a period of years. It was not popular. I attribute that partially to the fact that our entry fees have always been reasonable to begin with. It was a bit of a pain in the butt from the TD side.

On the other hand I have run some super cheap C tiers ($10) the last couple years with the trophy only format and they have been well attended.
Had similar results when I tried it here a while back. But again, my entry fees are/were pretty reasonable to begin with as well.

I do wonder if things would be different now with most entry fees coming in electronically in advance. I always had the impression that players didn't want to be the odd duck who signed up, in front of the TD and likely other players, for the trophy only option so they sucked it up and paid full price. Maybe in the safety(?) of being behind the screen of their computer or phone, they might be more willing?

Not something I feel the need to experiment with since my events are low cost/player pack/trophy only to begin with, but maybe someone else could try it?
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  #94  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:47 AM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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I run a trophy only option at my events ($21 EF instead of $35) and I usually have a handful of players that take that option. BUT I run TrophyOnly where the players get a player pack. The problem is the tournament manager is only setup where trophy only players get absolutely nothing (which seems to violate the B tier requirements for players getting a player pack) and are thus assumes their entry fee is a donation to the payouts. So for me, it's a pain to do trophy only if I want the TD report to be accurate financially if doing finances in the tournament manager. The Excel TD report wasn't much better because the PDGA never bothered with the implementation of trophy only for a number of divisions when parsing the TD report.
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  #95  
Old 12-05-2019, 11:15 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
...sanctioning, insurance, renting a shelter or the course, PDGA fees, printing programs / scorecards, amenities on the course (Water), trophies and additional AM payout...among other things...


Short Version:

Any inconsistency with projected revenue can cause problems with some of the basics.


My usual anti-succinct response:

PROs are paid out at 100%, so they = no revenue.

If you had an event with an opt-out or a low entry fee option like $10, then you would have to make that money cover all of the above.

Hypothetical:
50 AMs at $10 (Opt-out price) - $3 PDGA fees = $350
Sanctioning - $75
Insurance - $50
Rent Course - $50
Rent Shelter - $50
Printing - $30
AM payout - ?
Trophies - ?
CTPs - ?
Things I am forgetting right now - ?
Time and Effort - $0

All of the above vary at courses and parks, so lets say somehow all you have to pay for is Sanctioning @ $75, leaving $225. Off the top of my head that would get you 20-30 stock discs to spread out for AM payout. You could not even cover the PDGA required players packs @ $10 each. Also, the PDGA has a % needed to be met in terms of AM payouts.

Plus, No - shelter, programs, scorecards, amenities, trophies, CTPs...

So you could do it, but would you want to do it and more importantly - would ANYONE ever sign up for another PDGA B-Tier of yours in the future?

PDGA C-Tier - could be done to a degree, same numbers as above, you would have 20-30 discs for AM payouts (Doubt that would cover the PDGA % payouts). This assumes you are one of the 1 in 10000 TDs that have no financial responsibilities besides just PDGA sanctioning @ $50 and that better be one of the best courses ever!

EDIT: JC and David covered some of this before I finished typing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
On the other hand I have run some super cheap C tiers ($10) the last couple years with the trophy only format and they have been well attended.
Interesting.....
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  #96  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:25 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Interesting.....
Course quality play a large part of the option to run low entry fee, no frills' events - I believe Biscoe would agree.
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  #97  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:14 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
Course quality play a large part of the option to run low entry fee, no frills' events - I believe Biscoe would agree.
You can't run a no frills tournament at a decent course?
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  #98  
Old 12-06-2019, 06:48 AM
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da Crippler da Crippler is offline
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Funny money should go away. A player pack worth at least twice the entry fee (easily done) and a nice trophy to put on the mantle should be standard practice. Amateurs are NOT pros, we should not be taking ANY compensation for winning. Opting out is fine as long as the entry fee is low.
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  #99  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:31 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
You can't run a no frills tournament at a decent course?
You can run a no-frills tournament at ANY course.

But it's important to keep in mind that the costs associated with running a tournament do not go away because the tournament is "no frills". The course still costs money to reserve/use. Scorecards, scoreports, temp signs, etc still cost the same. Sanctioning still costs the same. Going no frills saves the cost of pre-buying player packs and/or prizes, but that and maybe fancy trophies is about the only expense (albeit a big one) avoided.

IMO, with the right TD doing everything just right from a cost-effectiveness standpoint, any course can play host to a great no-frills tournament.

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  #100  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:37 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
You can run a no-frills tournament at ANY course.

But it's important to keep in mind that the costs associated with running a tournament do not go away because the tournament is "no frills". The course still costs money to reserve/use. Scorecards, scoreports, temp signs, etc still cost the same. Sanctioning still costs the same. Going no frills saves the cost of pre-buying player packs and/or prizes, but that and maybe fancy trophies is about the only expense (albeit a big one) avoided.

IMO, with the right TD doing everything just right from a cost-effectiveness standpoint, any course can play host to a great no-frills tournament.
This, plus the little matter that TDs want players to come to their events.

One drawback to running a low-budget, no-frills event on any course is that attendance may be low. A quality course may draw them regardless of everything else, but a mediocre course may not.

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