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Old 04-27-2019, 05:13 PM
Darth Disc'er Darth Disc'er is offline
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Default Need help developing better consistency...

Hi everyone, new-ish player here, been disc'ing since last August. Played a competitive event last weekend and realized that my ability to hit lines correctly is very lacking to say the least. In that regard I ask for your advice in helping me develop better throwing habits to eventually include better distance overall.

Currently throwing around 300 (I can standstill throw 220-250) pretty effortlessly with a fairway. Haven't been throwing any distance drivers, worked on stand still for the first 5 months then tried to develop the xstep and I think I messed up somewhere in integrating that into my throw.

I've looked at other posts on here and watched the majority of the videos referenced in the best practices/guidelines section but where do I start even to begin to break this down.
Also since my employment status is currently nyet I do have a bunch of free time on my hands to try to improve but am curious as to how much time I should spend each day working on drills, field work, etc.

I do better with a schedule so say 30-45 min a day too much or 5 days a week, etc?
Should I continue to play casually while working on these elements with the basis that getting worse before I improve is a given?
Are there specific drills that I can incorporate both in the field and in the backyard to learn better muscle memory for the motion involved?

I really would like to get a training schedule going for myself daily to motivate me through the rough patches and help hold my consistency when working on a specific form element.

I do have a tripod/cellphone recording setup now so I can thankfully get some footage to you all but very much appreciate the advice and the discussion to help me make some things click finally.





1. I can definitely see the "hop" that somehow got added into the side and rear throw. From the back I can see that my disc through the hit point is way far away from my chest which I'm assuming is wrong.

Should I go back to standstill and work Beto drill till I can pull through tighter to the chest and extend closed shoulder?

2. Also I guess my lead shoulder (right for me backhand) is higher than the left maybe causing that dip in the reach to pull through? Not sure how to fix this issue.

I can do footwork drills inside or outside but what should I be focusing on specifically? Striding towards target? Keeping the disc in a fixed spot while moving around it.

Appreciate the advice and will report back with progress/ issues as I can and again thanks for the knowledge you guys bring to help new players.
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:58 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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You start very stiff and static holding at the right pec position, but you never come close to getting back to it. Let your arm/disc swing back and forth setting up to the release position, and get more dynamic rather than static.

You are hugging yourself/rounding and elbow is coming through really low. Need to turn your shoulders much further back and let the right shoulder swing back and forth like a pendulum under your chin and swing the arm taut pulled from the body so your elbow should get pulled up and out away from your body instead of you pulling your elbow into the body. See Stop Hugging Yourself, Reciprocating Dingle Arm and Door Frame Drills.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=119328
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Old 04-28-2019, 12:54 PM
Darth Disc'er Darth Disc'er is offline
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Thank you for the prompt response.

I am going to work Hugging and Dingle arm concepts today as the rounding is probably the worst of the issues here.

To summarize the video concepts my goals from the "Stop Hugging Yourself" video are to :

1. Spin around in a circle with a heavy weighted object (I recently obtained a Mallet for this) bending the throwing arm at your center feeling the weight of the object then stopping the turning momentum and allowing the weight of the swing pull my arm around to the target

2. Feel naturally where to accelerate the disc out of the spin and through to the target (I believe this is part in practice of the "Dingle Arm" video concepts) as well where you are swinging the disc almost looks like from front to back and the weight feels like it is pulling greatest over the front staggered right foot?

3. Work wide swing twisting in place to center of body narrow/ tight then back out as the motion transfers around to stop (brace) which would equate to the throw

3. In the backswing feel the weight off the front foot transfer over to the back foot and come back forward with the weight delaying the arm whip

My issues it would seem stem from the 2:40 timestamp "Stop Hugging yourself" example where the disc is trapped behind my left shoulder and is having to come around my body instead of my body getting out of the way of the disc. Or maybe its I am not wide enough in the backswing could also be not committed in the shoulder turn.

So in practice today I will swing the hammer around a bit and try to conceptualize these concepts of being loose, feeling the weight of the hammer do the work. I am also looking into the door frame videos now to get an understanding of what to work on, be cognizant of while working these to best effect.

As far as tomorrow I get a chance to go out and throw in a field should I bring the hammer with me? Will that help to first swing the hammer back and forth do a few tosses then pick up a disc and try to repeat the steps in sequence?

Also for the "heel hit to whip" example in "Dingle Arm" video at 6:17 I can work that with a few discs I assume staying loose and waiting for the motion to feel natural before engaging the whip fully to let the disc come out via excessive force rather than letting it go.

I will definitely be throwing standstill again this week unless you think abandoning foot work is a bad idea for now, but fixing rounding overall should be my big goal to start with.

Should I be worried about more footage, post what I try and achieve would help review to make sure I am getting these concepts correct. I am not worried about distance, disc flight etc while doing drills this way correct? I will be using a stack of beat in putters and some Mako3's about the most neutral discs I own low speed.

Thanks again for all the help and input, and please correct me if I am getting these concepts wrong.
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Old 04-28-2019, 04:19 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Disc'er View Post
2. Feel naturally where to accelerate the disc out of the spin and through to the target (I believe this is part in practice of the "Dingle Arm" video concepts) as well where you are swinging the disc almost looks like from front to back and the weight feels like it is pulling greatest over the front staggered right foot?

3. Work wide swing twisting in place to center of body narrow/ tight then back out as the motion transfers around to stop (brace) which would equate to the throw

3. In the backswing feel the weight off the front foot transfer over to the back foot and come back forward with the weight delaying the arm whip

My issues it would seem stem from the 2:40 timestamp "Stop Hugging yourself" example where the disc is trapped behind my left shoulder and is having to come around my body instead of my body getting out of the way of the disc. Or maybe its I am not wide enough in the backswing could also be not committed in the shoulder turn.
This is all kind of related.

You are pushing yourself into rotation off of your rear leg...the front/right leg is stopping you and the left/rear leg is pushing you into rotation trying to power your throw. This means your body is aligned to your rear leg, and this is incorrect.

You are rounding the throw because your axis is aligned to the rear leg, so the arm has to kind of go "around" the wrong point and the arm/disc get pinned to your chest and you round the throw.

You need to feel how to land on the right leg in balance, spine aligned on the right leg, wait to land on this leg and then the hip/leg extension will begin the rotation and the right shoulder will then pull the arm around correctly. No more rounding this way. It's basically impossible not to round your throw if you are aligned on the rear leg and pushing rotation from the rear foot.

If you are doing standstill shots, while allowing yourself to lift a foot off the ground when necessary, think of the backswing and forward swing as close to mirror images/feel. In the backswing you land on the left leg and are aligned to this leg. Then at the top of the backswing you land on the right leg which was previously deweighted. As the right leg is weighted the left foot will naturally lift and your hips clearing from leg extension will begin the forward rotation. This rotation around the spine/right leg will pull the right arm from the shoulder and since it is pulled rather than compressed/pushed feeling, it will stay on plane more easily.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:44 PM
Darth Disc'er Darth Disc'er is offline
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Thanks for the advice. I am looking at my form now from the footage I put up and it does look like I am driving off the rear foot. I always had this concept of clearing the weight off the back foot into the throw to get the rotation going for the hips>shoulders>arm>wrist chain.

I did some drills with the hammer in the garage this afternoon can't say I 100% am feeling the weight of the snap of the hammer moving forward completely. I may try and take it out with me and throw the hammer out a few times feeling its weight driving my arm out. My main concern is still not loose enough with the arm, forcing the elbow to collapse so the hammer/mallet head almost hits me center chest still speaks that I'm not loose enough using torque from the body / ground to get the rotation going. Its hard to tell if it is happening naturally or if I am forcing it mentally because I believe it is correct in my sub brain deep down.

The door frame drill did feel powerful though with a lot of pressure on the left foot as I reached back to grab it noticing my shoulders turned a lot more away from the target line with the right side butt cheek facing towards the target. I don't know if plant foot should turn slightly (toes 45 degrees off center heel facing more to target) away when I do this or keep it more flat on the ground. Also frame of reference is that I definitely don't want to be pulling on the frame from anywhere behind my intended line so I should be wide on that pull not left of my right shoulder if I am looking back? I caught myself doing this at first and figure it is wrong.

I am going to find some exercise equipment at the park and try to pull on that a few times like I'm doing the door frame drill and then get a stand still throw in after and see if I can feel the difference.

I will say I have struggled with balance and even suffered a major injury from flying off a tee pad a few years ago trying to play this sport and it completely turned me off to it. Tipping over my front side was something I wanted to avoid like the plague since the injury left me crutches bound for a good 3 months. If there is any way I can work on the concepts you outlined there with the front side / balance issue let me know.

Thanks again for the shared wisdom.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:51 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I think one leg drill is your best course of action. Door frame drill is great for feeling how to turn back without tipping back, but the next step that the door frame drill leads into is landing on the front leg, aligned on the front leg. You will then swing from this alignment. If you are doing the door frame drill incorrectly you'll feel like you can get even more leverage into the rear instep by pushing off of the rear instep against your arm...but this leads to rotation from the rear leg and on the wrong balance axis.

Check out the baseball themed videos in this thread too. So the last videos in the second post. It shows how the front hip clears the body into rotation, not the rear leg pushing forward.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=133543

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Old 04-28-2019, 07:35 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Disc'er View Post
The door frame drill did feel powerful though with a lot of pressure on the left foot as I reached back to grab it noticing my shoulders turned a lot more away from the target line with the right side butt cheek facing towards the target. I don't know if plant foot should turn slightly (toes 45 degrees off center heel facing more to target) away when I do this or keep it more flat on the ground. Also frame of reference is that I definitely don't want to be pulling on the frame from anywhere behind my intended line so I should be wide on that pull not left of my right shoulder if I am looking back? I caught myself doing this at first and figure it is wrong.
Your whole arm/thru back of shoulder should be pointed straight down the trajectory at max door frame, and your front heel should not be able to be weighted on the ground yet, until you release from the door frame.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:47 PM
Darth Disc'er Darth Disc'er is offline
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Hey thanks for the reply guys.

I looked up the one leg drill checked my notes and I've tried this before on my own so this time I took notes with me out to the field to keep myself in check ideally on what I was to be focused in on.

I started off doing some just perpetual motion swings back and forth with the disc in my hand trying to feel the "whip" engage on one foot, doing my best to stay upright and balanced.

I won't say it completely clicked in that motion definitely felt awkward although I forgot to bring my hammer so I will pack that along with everything for tomorrow's work.




For the rest I tried doing one leg drill with small reach back, maybe few inches past my back shoulder. One thing I did notice is I'm not getting my shoulder down enough under my chin, it was a real struggle to remember to do that.

As far as the balance and follow through go I am worried in these clips I am still getting a tiny push off the back toe used for balance on the unweighted foot when turning so this habit maybe a bit tougher to break in the long term. The backside view looked like the disc is in tighter but that maybe that I'm just rounding more efficiently instead of getting it straight out, there were a few shots that looked off my line by a good 45 degrees but it wasn't consistently happening.

I am going to work these drills the rest of the week and put up some more critique then unless you guys need daily updates. (I don't want to overload you guys with requests) I have the time and really just want to improve here while I do have the time, seems a waste to not get after this.

I will also check out the Shawn clement stuff, no background in baseball or any other throwing sport. Best I did was basketball, good solid core in swimming and running though made me think that better form or more efficient form is the way to go here. Flip turns are murder on time if done incorrectly.

Appreciate you guys help, any more critiques' ideas on how I can get there more efficiently is much appreciated.
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Old 04-29-2019, 01:02 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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You're doing what I think of as kind of a "safe" version of one leg drill...trying to not overdo it to get thrown forward because you're not completely counterweighted correctly. If you are set up right you can allow yourself to have a lot more of that torso tilt over the toes which will rotate/turn with you as you backswing and forward swing, and your rear leg and butt will counterbalance yourself automatically still.

SW is really good at specifics in these drills. So I'll say a couple things in general.

First, you are very upright/vertical. Your spine is super upright as you can see from the rear view. In your backswing this doesn't let any of your body get out of the way so your arm is kind of stuck to your chest. More squat by a bit, more torso tilt by a bit. Give yourself some tilt so that when you turn back you'll have room to swing the arm and shoulder under your chin...imitate a golf swing once or twice and feel how the arms need to have room to turn. Also you need this tilt so your butt can be a counterweight. Watch when SW does the one leg drill, how his tilt makes his body look like it leans a bit during backswing, but he is not leaning...just tilted. As well you can see that his rear foot's heel turns to touch the ground during the backswing, if you are tilted and turning correctly it will feel natural to allow the rear leg to rotate this way.

The other thing is it looks to me that your right shoulder stays in place during the throw, and your sternum and left shoulder move around it. You need to make sure that you are forward/targetward enough over the right leg to allow the right shoulder to swing out past the foot, and to swing with the spine balanced and centered. Again, without the correct setup and counterweighted feeling it feels impossible to allow the arm to be that far forward, so that's what leads me to saying you are throwing a "safe" feeling one leg throw, not overdoing it because you know you'd get tossed around a bit.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:40 PM
Darth Disc'er Darth Disc'er is offline
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Thanks for that critique slowplastic.

I am seeing how I am 100% upright in the back view throw I look like a toothpick stuck in the ground. I will work on that, the correct set up for that is to sit back into the hips with the bend at the waist so the head is still over the toes, correct?

When he mentions head up that means your not looking down at all at the disc or ground you'd want the chin level to allow for the shoulder to come underneath it? I think that's part of my problem too I look down at the disc in the pocket before I extend it backwards.

I was very timid about these today so more power and try to setup better for it tomorrow. I believe I have a pair of crutches here somewhere so I am going to experiment with the twisted spiral concept see if that makes anything else click.

When you say
Quote:
You need to make sure that you are forward/targetward enough over the right leg to allow the right shoulder to swing out past the foot
so the shoulder should come out over the foot as the forearm / elbow hinge unwinds? I guess this is a new concept for me to play around with or it never occurred to me before this happens.

I am also curious what I could expect if I go full power tomorrow what will happen if I do this wrong? Spinning out in place or more likely tipping over the front side if I am not balanced properly? Help if I know what to expect trying to get this right but challenges abound.

Thanks for your help in getting me to understand these concepts better, I salute you.
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