#41  
Old 03-02-2019, 11:16 PM
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XC_Eddy XC_Eddy is offline
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Okay, this is super helpful. Definitely messes with buying discs online. I do wonder if the variance is greater in destroyers because they mold so many batches of them. Would wing variance be more controlled with a smaller sample size?

Do we think that this same general principle is the same for most molds? If I'm looking for the most OS firebird I can find, do I try to find one with a very concave rim? I find most current Teebirds to be more OS than I want. Do I look for one with a flatter/more convex wing?
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  #42  
Old 03-02-2019, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
I do wonder if the variance is greater in destroyers because they mold so many batches of them. Would wing variance be more controlled with a smaller sample size?

Do we think that this same general principle is the same for most molds?
I do think variance is greater in Destroyers because they mold so many batches... and temperatures of the rooms will vary more, etc. Smaller sample sizes might make variances more controlled within a batch, but not from batch to batch.

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  #43  
Old 03-03-2019, 02:16 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
Okay, this is super helpful. Definitely messes with buying discs online. I do wonder if the variance is greater in destroyers because they mold so many batches of them. Would wing variance be more controlled with a smaller sample size?

Do we think that this same general principle is the same for most molds? If I'm looking for the most OS firebird I can find, do I try to find one with a very concave rim? I find most current Teebirds to be more OS than I want. Do I look for one with a flatter/more convex wing?
Wider rim/higher speed discs tend to be way more finicky or different disc to disc. Look at how little people complain about their putters being different in flight. Mids are fairly consistent too...there are variations but in a lot of molds it's not so bad. Then as you said, tons of Destroyers are made as well.

I always look for PLH/wing height, but the wing shape of flare or concave wing compared to flatter or convex definitely seems to factor in...I have not measured it like in the video at all, but just visually and then from throwing the discs it seems to be very consistent.

Generally with Firebirds, the flat flight plate ones have a higher wing or PLH, and that means that the bottom part of the wing is taller with more flare. With Teebirds for example, my straighter one has a flatter looking bottom of the wing profile and my OS one has a bit more flare at the bottom similar to a Firebird, but not to that extent. Definitely the PLH is higher in the more OS one, it's very obvious when the discs are side by side on a flat surface.

Then look at molds that are designed to be straight like an FD, it has a very straight bottom wing. Roadrunners are designed to be understable and have a convex bottom wing.

I'd just look at your discs that you know how they fly and compare these characteristics between molds, then when you're looking at a variety of the same mold you can spot those subtleties a little more easily. I look at PLH/wing height first, and then really look at the shape of the wing and nose to try to get an idea of it it has any extra curves or anything. Again it's experience but it will give you a good idea or ballpark for if it will be a Destroyer with some turn, or very straight, or truly OS out of the hand.

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  #44  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:36 PM
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I am absolutely perplexed as to how people are not furious about this. What a ridiculous lack of quality control.

Last edited by mk.ultra; 03-06-2019 at 07:38 PM.
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  #45  
Old 03-06-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mk.ultra View Post
I am absolutely perplexed as to how people are not furious about this. What a ridiculous lack of quality control.
Why do you think the Destroyer thread is so long? People need to figure out which one to buy so it flies like they want...because everyone wants something different from their Destroyer.

Yep it's tricky. The ones I like are the best disc ever. Then some I can't even throw.

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Old 03-06-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Why do you think the Destroyer thread is so long? People need to figure out which one to buy so it flies like they want...because everyone wants something different from their Destroyer.

Yep it's tricky. The ones I like are the best disc ever. Then some I can't even throw.
Agree. You either like Destroyers or you don't. I've thrown pretty much every iteration of star Destroyer since the disc came out in 2008. The mold has all sorts of inconsistencies. I guess you have to remember that not every batch of star plastic is molecular-ly similar. They're going to cool slightly differently and take on different flight characteristics. Also, who knows how often parts of the mold have been tweaked over the years.

I personally like trying different star Destroyers to see what they do. Not all of them are to my liking, but that doesn't dissuade me from putting in the effort to find ones that fly great.

From a dilettante view I could see how a bad star Destroyer would be vexing.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:11 AM
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Isn't this variance great: Everyone can find a Star Destroyer that they like!

No need for cycling, just pick fresh Destroyers to cover the whole spectrum.


Same for Aviars: There are so many types, but they all are Aviars.

That's good marketing, I'd say.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:32 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meillo View Post
Isn't this variance great: Everyone can find a Star Destroyer that they like!

No need for cycling, just pick fresh Destroyers to cover the whole spectrum.


Same for Aviars: There are so many types, but they all are Aviars.

That's good marketing, I'd say.
No not with Aviars, as some are Big Bead, a small bead Aviar to others as a no bead Classic Grid Aviar, some like the AviarX3 are totally different discs. Then the Yeti Aviar is a totally unique disc as well but more like a standard Aviar/ 3 mold unlike AviarX3.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
No not with Aviars, as some are Big Bead, a small bead Aviar to others as a no bead Classic Grid Aviar, some like the AviarX3 are totally different discs. Then the Yeti Aviar is a totally unique disc as well but more like a standard Aviar/ 3 mold unlike AviarX3.
Of course, the technical case is different between the Destroyer variance and the Aviar types, but the marketing model is the same: Covering a broad spectrum of discs/flights unter one disc name.

The different beads on the Aviars require different molds, but where is the difference in result if one mold allows you to produce rim undersides ranging from Firebird over Valkyrie to Roadrunner? You don't find Firebirds with convex rim undersides or Roadrunners with concave rim undersides, either. But Destroyers in the same plastic have it all. That's because people get a Firebird if they want overstability. They get a Roadrunner if they want a roller disc (and believe that they have the arm for it). But they get a Star Destroyer if they want a cool distance driver. Other than a Firebird, Star Destroyers have to cover a far broader range of expectations. Instead of telling the customers that Star Destroyers simply are not for most of them, they rather produce ones for everyone and tell them to just try out a bunch of them and you'll find the right one. Not only does that leverage the value of the ``Star Destroyer'' name's coolness but also does it increase the preception that the Star Destroyer is *the* distance driver of choice.

In the same way, the Aviar became the most successful disc, because it is not one disc but a whole family of discs. Philo putts with Avairs, right? Yeti got his putting world titles with Aviars, right?

It's all just fine marketing.

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  #50  
Old 03-07-2019, 03:53 AM
BeRReGoN BeRReGoN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meillo View Post
In the same way, the Aviar became the most successful disc, because it is not one disc but a whole family of discs. Philo putts with Avairs, right? Yeti got his putting world titles with Aviars, right?

It's all just fine marketing.
Everybody knows that Yeti putts with Yeti Aviars, that McBeth was using McPro Aviars, etc... Those different type of aviars are not inconsistents in between each type.

Destroyers are completely different since even within McPro, Pro, Star, ..., Destroyers there is a lot of variations. If you can hold the disc and know what you're looking for it's nice but if you're buying online, well good luck!
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