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Old 06-12-2019, 10:21 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Default Who played when there were no Ams?

I would like to hear from any of you who played prior to the existence of Amateur divisions in disc golf. I am particularly interested in the motivations for and process of creation of the Amateur divisions. I really feel like the game has missed the boat on amateurism all along and am wondering how we got where we are today.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:33 AM
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thrembo thrembo is offline
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:18 AM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I would like to hear from any of you who played prior to the existence of Amateur divisions in disc golf. I am particularly interested in the motivations for and process of creation of the Amateur divisions. I really feel like the game has missed the boat on amateurism all along and am wondering how we got where we are today.
Coming into disc golf from a ball golf professional history, I do not understand what problems you have with the amateur side of disc golf. I think the amateur side of disc golf is thriving with an abundance of opportunities to compete in leagues, tournaments, etc.

What particularly do have an issue with when it comes to amateurs and how the PDGA has handled them?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:20 AM
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Bill Burns used to post here, he would actually know. I think he was on the PDGA BoD when it happened. Guys like Lavone Wolfe, Tom Monroe, Steve Wisecup, and Rick Rothstein would probably be the people we would have to try to get an answer from, they would have been making those decisions.

My understanding always was that John Houck was a huge influence on the what became the usual payout structure of PDGA events, but that's "somebody told me that somebody said that they heard from somebody" quality information. He was a big disc golf promoter at the time and became the PDGA Commissioner by the mid 90's, so I would think he would have an interesting take on it anyway.

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Old 06-12-2019, 11:29 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Coming into disc golf from a ball golf professional history, I do not understand what problems you have with the amateur side of disc golf. I think the amateur side of disc golf is thriving with an abundance of opportunities to compete in leagues, tournaments, etc.

What particularly do have an issue with when it comes to amateurs and how the PDGA has handled them?
He didn't say he had a problem with the amateur side of the game, he said he thinks the sport missed the boat on amateurism. No one is arguing the game isn't growing and thriving in a lot of ways. Just that it could be different and still grow (perhaps more/faster?).

Unlike most sports, from a competitive standpoint, our pro side came first. Most other sports evolved from a game to a friendly competition to eventually players making a living (or at least earning an income) from the game. So unlike those sports, our amateur tournament scene has largely been motivated by "what can I win" rather than "I just want to win". As one of our wisest posters here puts it, we tend to try to bribe players into amateur competition with promises of prizes and player packs rather than enticing them for the spirit of competition.

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Old 06-12-2019, 12:09 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Coming into disc golf from a ball golf professional history, I do not understand what problems you have with the amateur side of disc golf. I think the amateur side of disc golf is thriving with an abundance of opportunities to compete in leagues, tournaments, etc.

What particularly do have an issue with when it comes to amateurs and how the PDGA has handled them?
In short I have an issue with the idea that there is no inherent value placed upon organized competition in and of itself by players, promoters, or the PDGA. There does not seem to be any other extant "sport" where this is the case.

Obviously the game is growing in leaps and bounds and has for the entire time I have been involved with it.

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Old 06-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
In short I have an issue with the idea that there is no inherent value placed upon organized competition in and of itself by players, promoters, or the PDGA. There does not seem to be any other extant "sport" where this is the case.

Obviously the game is growing in leaps and bounds and has for the entire time I have been involved with it.
I recommend taking a look at the growing collegiate and high school scenes. That's where you're going to grow that sense of "organizing competition for the sake of competition."
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:57 PM
Dcinmd Dcinmd is offline
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I recommend taking a look at the growing collegiate and high school scenes. That's where you're going to grow that sense of "organizing competition for the sake of competition."
And the opposite would be looking at the AAU/summer league competitions. The amount of money that parents spend on kids these days is a bit crazy.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I would like to hear from any of you who played prior to the existence of Amateur divisions in disc golf. I am particularly interested in the motivations for and process of creation of the Amateur divisions. I really feel like the game has missed the boat on amateurism all along and am wondering how we got where we are today.
Do you have a reference time for when the am divisions were created? Thanks.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:04 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
He didn't say he had a problem with the amateur side of the game, he said he thinks the sport missed the boat on amateurism. No one is arguing the game isn't growing and thriving in a lot of ways. Just that it could be different and still grow (perhaps more/faster?).

Unlike most sports, from a competitive standpoint, our pro side came first. Most other sports evolved from a game to a friendly competition to eventually players making a living (or at least earning an income) from the game. So unlike those sports, our amateur tournament scene has largely been motivated by "what can I win" rather than "I just want to win". As one of our wisest posters here puts it, we tend to try to bribe players into amateur competition with promises of prizes and player packs rather than enticing them for the spirit of competition.
You don't happen to know how that trend evolved? When we first had the notion that bribing folks to play was a good idea? I come out of a running tradition, there is some bribing, but it's nothing like what we do. On the other hand, the bragging rights there are bigger. "Did you see, I ran Boston." Blegh.

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