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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4101  
Old 10-11-2020, 08:52 PM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Seeing too many scores lower than par is purely and only a symptom of setting par in a way that is different than the definition.



I know you skipped that quote, so go back and read it. Slowly. Aloud. Put an emphasis on all the words that being with "e". Mull it over.

Consider what happens when par is set according to the definition. There can't be too many scores under par because most players cannot play better than an expert who is making no errors.
You don't understand the problem. The problem isn't par. The problem is the easiness of putting. Sure by your definition we should have flat mostly open 600-700 foot par 3's. But that's a boring hole no matter what "par" you call it. Miss marked par is just a SYMPTOM of the real problem. If baskets were properly sized we wouldn't see 60% of players "birdieing" those holes.

I don't care about your par definition! I care about watching great, fair and challenging disc golf.
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  #4102  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:11 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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It's not Steve's definition of par, it's the definition of par. If you don't care about it, what are you doing in the Park Talk thread?
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  #4103  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:15 PM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
It's not Steve's definition of par, it's the definition of par. If you don't care about it, what are you doing in the Park Talk thread?
Because the solution isn't to change par it's to change the basket.
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  #4104  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:31 PM
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This thread is about correctly applying par, regardless of basket.

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  #4105  
Old 10-12-2020, 01:49 AM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
Because the solution isn't to change par it's to change the basket.
So the solution to your perceived problem of design gimmicks is to introduce your preferred gimmick?

BRILLIANT!

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  #4106  
Old 10-12-2020, 03:42 AM
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That's his response to everything. Logic and common sense be damned!

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  #4107  
Old 10-12-2020, 09:51 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
Because the solution isn't to change par it's to change the basket.
Nobody is changing par. We are trying to get more TDs to apply the actual definition.
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  #4108  
Old 10-12-2020, 11:42 AM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Nobody is changing par. We are trying to get more TDs to apply the actual definition.
And you could if you changed the basket.
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  #4109  
Old 10-12-2020, 01:03 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
And you could if you changed the basket.
And we can if we don't change the basket.

You'll find no support for changing the basket by bringing par into the mix. Nor will anyone else find any opposition. Whether you add a throw to each hole, or make every hole less than 25 feet, par will adapt and work just fine if the definition is used.

Whatever the basket, there will be a score expected of an expert with errorless play and that score will be a good score to get and if TDs set par to that score there will not be too many scores under par.
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  #4110  
Old 10-12-2020, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Nobody is changing par. We are trying to get more TDs to apply the actual definition.
Since the actual definition has only three variables for the TD to consider when determining par, what do you think they're getting wrong?
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