#221  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:19 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by aphilso1 View Post
Fury is quite a bit slower.

In the same speed range, I found the Axiom Vanish to be comparable to a Renegade, although the Vanish was easier to control for me. And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that the MVP Wave in Plasma plastic is a great tailwind crusher. The plastic type really matters in that mold though, as Plasma molds up with extra dome and less stability than all the other plastic types for whatever reason.
Call me a naysayer, but I don't like the Wave any more than I like the Renegade. I simply can't get a damn thing out of a Wave. They're really flippy and don't penetrate all that well.

The Vanish is a better disc. It'll turn, but generally hooks up late in flight and comes back. Nice S curve flier. Both the Vanish and Wave are faster and longer than the Renegade.

Money talks. DD is discontinuing discs that don't sell. Period. Some people are upset over certain molds. Its only natural. However, it makes zero sense for a company to continue molding and marketing discs that aren't selling. Some people are almost acting like DD is being vindictive for discontinuing their favorite mold or something. It isn't like that.

I'm delighted to see the Renegade gone. That gives DD a chance to go back to the drawing board and create a better speed 11 driver.
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  #222  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:27 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Baked View Post
Interesting. One thing I’ve definitely noticed is that discs are more stable at my home elevation (1000’). It’s not like I’m up in the Rockies or anything, but I travel a lot and I notice a difference when I play at sea level. Very often my trusted understable molds become squirrelly and now I’ll just leave them at home and adjust my disc selections accordingly.

I haven’t been bagging Renegades for very long but I remember a huge difference with Terns. At home they always have a nice reliable fade at the end, never turning all the way over, while at lower elevation I would get some crazy turn & burn at times.
I play in the Denver, (CO) area. About 5300'. Even at that altitude the Renegade is ridiculously flippy. I can't even imagine what it flies like at sea level.

Simply put, the Tern is many, many times better than a Renegade. Its a tick faster, with much better glide and distance potential. A Tern will generally fade back toward center late in flight. A Renegade won't. You flip it, that shot is ruined.

I recently dug a 167g fuzion Renegade out of a lake. Just for fun I'm going to throw that disc in the field to reacquaint myself with how flippy it really is.

The Renegade is like an out of control Surge or Wraith. One that has been beaten so severely that it has zero late fade left on it. You have to throw them severely hyzer to have any shot of keeping them flat.
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  #223  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:28 PM
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wolfmandragon wolfmandragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Twmccoy View Post
Call me a naysayer, but I don't like the Wave any more than I like the Renegade. I simply can't get a damn thing out of a Wave. They're really flippy and don't penetrate all that well.
...
There seems to be more variance in the Wave than most MVP discs. The HOFC Waves started out with a bit of beef. Overall, still my longest disc I can throw flat.
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  #224  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:42 PM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
There seems to be more variance in the Wave than most MVP discs.
This is true. I've written in the past that I had three Neutron Waves, at 153g, 163g, and 173g. The 153g and 173g are more understable (and flippier) than the 163g, which I unfortunately lost. I later got a 155g, and it's less flippy than the older 153g.
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  #225  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:43 PM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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Call me a naysayer, but I don't like the Wave any more than I like the Renegade.
Naysayer!

Seriously, why are you throwing discs that were made for people like me (noodle-armed causal ams)?
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  #226  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:33 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Naysayer!

Seriously, why are you throwing discs that were made for people like me (noodle-armed causal ams)?
Well, you have to throw everything at least once.... to see whether you like it or not.

I wanted to like the Wave. It looks good, and feels good in the hand. I can't get anything out of them. I've thrown like 5 Waves. They're so damn finicky. Like a speed 12 Freedom. Stubborn, until you flip it into infinity. The Wave has an extremely small effective power window. Its either a stall, or a flip.

The Vanish is simply a better disc.
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  #227  
Old 06-14-2019, 08:25 PM
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PMantle PMantle is offline
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The Wave is MVP's best distance driver.

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  #228  
Old 06-14-2019, 09:50 PM
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aphilso1 aphilso1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Twmccoy View Post
Well, you have to throw everything at least once.... to see whether you like it or not.

I wanted to like the Wave. It looks good, and feels good in the hand. I can't get anything out of them. I've thrown like 5 Waves. They're so damn finicky. Like a speed 12 Freedom. Stubborn, until you flip it into infinity. The Wave has an extremely small effective power window. Its either a stall, or a flip.

The Vanish is simply a better disc.
My arm must be squarely in that small effective power window, because a Plasma Wave flies pretty beautifully for me. Basically an 11/5/-2/2 flight path. Great tailwind bomber, can be forced over into a roller, can ride a long turnover in calm winds, etc. Yeah, it's flippy but it is a nice controllable flippy disc for me. Renegade on the other hand was super inconsistent. For every one throw that was a perfect crush, I'd have 3 others that were throwlers.
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  #229  
Old 06-15-2019, 12:12 AM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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The Wave is MVP's best distance driver.
I like the Phase better but probably the only one.
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  #230  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:31 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by aphilso1 View Post
My arm must be squarely in that small effective power window, because a Plasma Wave flies pretty beautifully for me. Basically an 11/5/-2/2 flight path. Great tailwind bomber, can be forced over into a roller, can ride a long turnover in calm winds, etc. Yeah, it's flippy but it is a nice controllable flippy disc for me. Renegade on the other hand was super inconsistent. For every one throw that was a perfect crush, I'd have 3 others that were throwlers.
The last couple Waves I've tried have been like 12, 4, -4, 2. Wildly flippy, and not a ton of glide. The Wave doesn't like to be thrown hard at all, hyzer or flat.

With the Renegade I think I had 1 good throw in like 12 tries. I had the disc in my bag for a trial round on the course one day. I kept trying different shots with it. Zero success. The only shot I would even SLIGHTLY consider pulling the Renegade out for would be a medium length drive in a gusty tailwind. That's the only way the disc will stay flat. The Surge is such a better disc than the Renegade it isn't funny.
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