Form critique please.

[sidewinder22]

You aren't swinging on a plane, your arm/disc are turning 90 degrees and your release would be nose up and to the right, and your rear elbow is out away from you. Keep the disc plane on the same plane as your shoulders. Watch your disc.

Keep rear elbow in or elbow hips forward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90&t=8m44s

Disc plane always matches shoulder plane:

[ALT-J]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

You aren't swinging on a plane, your arm/disc are turning 90 degrees and your release would be nose up and to the right, and your rear elbow is out away from you. Keep the disc plane on the same plane as your shoulders. Watch your disc.

Keep rear elbow in or elbow hips forward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90&t=8m44s

Disc plane always matches shoulder plane:

Thanks doc! That dipping elbow has kind of always been a problem but I never really realized until now how drastic effect it has for power and control. HUB's new video on nose down explains the power part perfectly. It feels like the one leg drill could be good for correcting it, would you suggest that?

It's funny how I never thought about what my off arm is doing on backhands eventhough I basically throw all my forehands with my left side and off arm swim move.

[ALT-J]

It seems that the mystery of my dipping elbow is now finally solved, thanks RandyC for help! Turns out that my backswing has always been a mix of actively reaching/turning with the right shoulder instead of turning the hips and left shoulder. Stiff right shoulder/arm = not good. Turning the hips+left shoulder and leaving right shoulder passive = good.

Something I also noticed that could be helpful for others that if I reach back with my right side the weight is always on the outside of my left foot. Welcome poor balance. But if I turn the left shoulder that also initiates the hip rotation my weight is on the inside of my left foot. Dont know if this is too obvious to be said out loud.

[slowplastic]

Originally Posted by ALT-J

It seems that the mystery of my dipping elbow is now finally solved, thanks RandyC for help! Turns out that my backswing has always been a mix of actively reaching/turning with the right shoulder instead of turning the hips and left shoulder. Stiff right shoulder/arm = not good. Turning the hips+left shoulder and leaving right shoulder passive = good.

Something I also noticed that could be helpful for others that if I reach back with my right side the weight is always on the outside of my left foot. Welcome poor balance. But if I turn the left shoulder that also initiates the hip rotation my weight is on the inside of my left foot. Dont know if this is too obvious to be said out loud.

Nothing is too obvious. Not saying the obvious things is how lots of us go years with the wrong grip or stepping with the wrong part of our feet.

Make sure that you feel the balance/leverage on the left foot before you really turn into the backswing. Now that you're feeling better balance, make sure that you are balanced on the left leg and can then turn back balanced on the left hip...make sure you don't turn the shoulders to load the hips but you load the hips which turns the shoulders. There is a difference that is quite important.

[ALT-J]

Originally Posted by slowplastic

Nothing is too obvious. Not saying the obvious things is how lots of us go years with the wrong grip or stepping with the wrong part of our feet.

Make sure that you feel the balance/leverage on the left foot before you really turn into the backswing. Now that you're feeling better balance, make sure that you are balanced on the left leg and can then turn back balanced on the left hip...make sure you don't turn the shoulders to load the hips but you load the hips which turns the shoulders. There is a difference that is quite important.

Yeah the battle continues indoors, outside temperature atm is -23c/-9f and a foot of snow. Nerd body vs throwing mechanics round one million. The new analogy I like to use is twist yourself around the left leg. The leg is a pole that doesnt move or if it does, it moves the whole body as a unit.It still requires every bit of mental energy not to rotate the right shoulder and keep the arm loose. As you said, there is an important difference. Subtle errors lead to clumsy rotation without feeling any weight. Almost any tension in the upper body messes things up and makes planting that left leg pole harder. I need to focus on squeezing that left foot against the ground instead trying to push. Crush the can/insect what ever. On the other hand when everything goes great I feel great leverage and I really have to worry about breaking some furniture.

The next big thing is learning to lift the right heel off the ground properly and really turn those hips. I think that will help alot with the weight distribution and balance. Ive always had a tough time trying to rotate those hips. And of course the one leg drill which I just recently understood. What a wonderful swing drill thats isolating the actual throwing motion.

[slowplastic]

Originally Posted by ALT-J

The next big thing is learning to lift the right heel off the ground properly and really turn those hips.

Let the backswing lift the foot. If you pendulum a hammer or something heavy back and forth...heavy because it will really slow down the motion, then at some point the opposite foot's heel will be so deweighted it lifts. So right foot for backswing, balanced on left leg, and left foot for forward pump or swing balanced on right leg.

The thing to remember is this should just be a natural tempo...if you have to try to do something you're probably doing it at the wrong time or sequence. Actually...people always lift the foot too early if it's an error. So try to not lift it consciously and see if the heel rises on its own.

[sidewinder22]

Right, the momentum of the backswing should pull the front heel up, as you pushed everything back from the instep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1pkfJtVq-8&t=5m30s

[ALT-J]

I managed to get my heel up and for the first time it felt natural and balanced. The key was correcting the sequence of the backswing. It feels really dumb to turn the hips at all if you started the backswing motion with shoulders and arm. I was already off balance and turning the hips wouldve made it even worse. Hips, shoulders, arm extension in that order and it feels natural to do the same sequence in the throwing motion. It almost feels idiot proof. I can rotate/swing significantly faster now but it feels like I lost some power from the ground up/resistance feeling. Gonna post a video tomorrow.

Thanks so much SlowPlastic and SW22 for your help. It feels like I'm finally getting through some barriers and I dont think I'd ever come this far without your comments.

[ALT-J]

Originally Posted by slowplastic

The thing to remember is this should just be a natural tempo...if you have to try to do something you're probably doing it at the wrong time or sequence.

Still trying to figure this out... Its really hard to get a nice loose rotation on the left leg with good balance and produce any kind of forward or downward momentum/leverage at the same time. It just feels like I'm rotating and not shifting. It feels better and faster because im more loose and my hips are more turned back than before. A lack of door frame feeling I guess.

[ALT-J]

A couple one leg towel whips here. Learning to whip my hips. The second one is clearly better and felt like a lateral hip move with arm lagging. First one felt more like an unsupported rotation. What do you think?

https://youtu.be/gtfZddjJVHM