#11  
Old 02-23-2018, 06:01 PM
Bultx1215's Avatar
Bultx1215 Bultx1215 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SA TX
Years Playing: 40.4
Courses Played: 23
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,172
Niced 9 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubes View Post
seems like Pre cast will crack like crazy unless its got re bar running all through it. Pre cast will be flat on a not so flat surface. Its not like a car is going to be parked on the tee pad but pouring the concrete would probably last longer and not cost as much??

It can, but if its done right, it will be fine. Concrete cracks..that is a rule of life. Cracking doesn't necessarily mean a failure. Concrete crack failure is defined as a crack that a US nickel can be inserted into..on edge of course. Steel mesh and or rebar, on no more than 12" centers each way with a 2" off the form perimeter bar, will hold it together as long as the cracking isn't catastrophic. If the use fiber in addition to the steel, even better. Fiber alone is wrong. Fiber is an admixture designed to augment structural reinforcement and prevent random cracking, not a stand alone structural reinforcement. Plus, they will be using better mixes for precast, or at least should be. 4000psi or up , maybe even a 650 flex mix or High Early. That gives you a stronger, more durable product.

As to placement, that is why they should be placed on at least 2" min of loose material. Small rock, say 3/8" and under, or sand. Before placement, you should smooth it out to get rid of hills and valleys, place the pad, wiggle it a tad and you are good to go. It will settle down and be solid.

In my experience, cast in place would cost more. You have to buy enough forms to make it cost effective to use readymix ( usually 5yds plus) or balance out cost of bag crete. Ground has to be leveled and prepped, forms set, steel set and place and finish...lotta steps and time for a single tee. These guys can prep and pour in mass with reusable steel forms and then deliver. You just prep ground, add your loose fill and set. Done. Less steps in the field which is where one incurs higher costs. The company being able to pour and finish multiple pads at once and all in the same place cuts cost for them by a large factor, thus a cheaper end product delivered. They don't have to have finishers spread out over a whole course getting the pads poured and finished, so...less labor is needed. And all you need is 2-3 people and a bobcat to set them.
Sponsored Links

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-23-2018, 08:21 PM
davetherocketguy's Avatar
davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Southwest Michigan
Years Playing: 15.1
Courses Played: 84
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,517
Niced 1,357 Times in 591 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubes View Post
seems like Pre cast will crack like crazy unless its got re bar running all through it. Pre cast will be flat on a not so flat surface. Its not like a car is going to be parked on the tee pad but pouring the concrete would probably last longer and not cost as much??
It's not difficult to make a flat and level base. It's pretty simple really. Because of how they are handling it I am sure there is some kind of wire mesh reinforcement or something like that.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-24-2018, 10:37 AM
Nubes's Avatar
Nubes Nubes is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Union,KY
Posts: 204
Niced 87 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
It's not difficult to make a flat and level base. It's pretty simple really. Because of how they are handling it I am sure there is some kind of wire mesh reinforcement or something like that.


Preparation will be key. If they take the time to grade out a nice flat area should only crack at the joints...hopefully. Its been a long time ago but that is what I did for living for about 7-8 years. I worked for a large outfit and did heavy highway and some building trade projects which was usually in the winter because we were working under a roof or indoors. The last one I was on was Paul Brown stadium in Cincinnati. My step dad is a legend in the world of concrete. One of the hardest working men Ive ever met. He instilled that in me at a young age. I had my first job busing tables at 14 In believe? LOL. I still help him with occasional side jobs in the summer but concrete is hard work!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-24-2018, 10:54 AM
Nubes's Avatar
Nubes Nubes is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Union,KY
Posts: 204
Niced 87 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bultx1215 View Post
It can, but if its done right, it will be fine. Concrete cracks..that is a rule of life. Cracking doesn't necessarily mean a failure. Concrete crack failure is defined as a crack that a US nickel can be inserted into..on edge of course. Steel mesh and or rebar, on no more than 12" centers each way with a 2" off the form perimeter bar, will hold it together as long as the cracking isn't catastrophic. If the use fiber in addition to the steel, even better. Fiber alone is wrong. Fiber is an admixture designed to augment structural reinforcement and prevent random cracking, not a stand alone structural reinforcement. Plus, they will be using better mixes for precast, or at least should be. 4000psi or up , maybe even a 650 flex mix or High Early. That gives you a stronger, more durable product.

As to placement, that is why they should be placed on at least 2" min of loose material. Small rock, say 3/8" and under, or sand. Before placement, you should smooth it out to get rid of hills and valleys, place the pad, wiggle it a tad and you are good to go. It will settle down and be solid.

In my experience, cast in place would cost more. You have to buy enough forms to make it cost effective to use readymix ( usually 5yds plus) or balance out cost of bag crete. Ground has to be leveled and prepped, forms set, steel set and place and finish...lotta steps and time for a single tee. These guys can prep and pour in mass with reusable steel forms and then deliver. You just prep ground, add your loose fill and set. Done. Less steps in the field which is where one incurs higher costs. The company being able to pour and finish multiple pads at once and all in the same place cuts cost for them by a large factor, thus a cheaper end product delivered. They don't have to have finishers spread out over a whole course getting the pads poured and finished, so...less labor is needed. And all you need is 2-3 people and a bobcat to set them.

You sound like a project manager I used to work for?? Tom is that you? lol Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking of mixing on site or using mini mix trucks? 3-4 guys would be all you need pouring 4-6 pads a day. Bull float, edger and a broom should be all they need? At 4 inches thick 5-6 yards of concrete would go a long way. If they have all there spots ready to go, Bobcat in the pre cast slabs would be a pretty fast and effective way to do this. You could even move them later if needed?? No wait time with pre cast either....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:12 PM
Bultx1215's Avatar
Bultx1215 Bultx1215 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SA TX
Years Playing: 40.4
Courses Played: 23
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,172
Niced 9 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubes View Post
I still help him with occasional side jobs in the summer but concrete is hard work!!!
You should try Laredo concrete work in the summer. Any trowel machine under 300# is a float only machine. Once the temps hit 108-110, they are useless. My machine was a 400#er that will hurt you if you let it. Toughest place I ever worked. That's why the 30 year old concrete finishers look like they are in their mid 50's there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubes View Post
You sound like a project manager I used to work for?? Tom is that you? lol Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking of mixing on site or using mini mix trucks? 3-4 guys would be all you need pouring 4-6 pads a day. Bull float, edger and a broom should be all they need? At 4 inches thick 5-6 yards of concrete would go a long way. If they have all there spots ready to go, Bobcat in the pre cast slabs would be a pretty fast and effective way to do this. You could even move them later if needed?? No wait time with pre cast either....
Nope, just a 25yr contractor that is still in the game.

A volumetric truck might be the best bet, although the mix is not as good as readymix. The extra admixtures they use in readymix really help with durability over volumetric or hand mix. I mentioned the 5 yd deal only because that is where they stop charging extra for short loads in my area. That number is pretty much burned into the brain pan. Hate paying more for small loads. I just want to rent the concrete truck for a bit, not buy it. One outfit here charges nearly a grand for a single yard delivery. Ridiculous.

Agreed, 3-4 guys can handle that easily, esp if at least 2 are experienced hands. If you hand mix, I would add at least two more or cut the size to be poured until you can see how its going.

With precasting them, you can do double or triple the work with the same hands. You won't be all spread out and everything is right there making it easy to add more without straining the help. We did one deal that was very similar. Casting picnic table tops and seats. Poured about 12 yds with 4 people. Two to place and two to finish. Once the placing was done, those two went behind for final finish and broom. Worked out very well like that. So well, we might have been fine with 3. BUT, in So. TX, you should never skimp on help. That sun and heat will bite you fast if you let it. Have plenty of scars from that.

I would put steel to it before you broom. Floating leaves the surface matrix open, unsealed. Leads to a more porous surface and makes it more prone to chalking later. When the surface is steel troweled, it seals up all the small micro cracks you aren't seeing, preventing them from becoming bigger later. I have done it both ways many millions of time...steel always gives the best product hands down. Yes, the broom does tear it back open to a large degree, but one can't argue with the results. The steel troweled surfaces always fare better. That is where a lot of DG tees get inferior results due to skipping a vital step.
Reply With Quote
 

  #16  
Old 02-24-2018, 01:46 PM
Nubes's Avatar
Nubes Nubes is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Union,KY
Posts: 204
Niced 87 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bultx1215 View Post

With precasting them, you can do double or triple the work with the same hands. You won't be all spread out and everything is right there making it easy to add more without straining the help. We did one deal that was very similar. Casting picnic table tops and seats. Poured about 12 yds with 4 people. Two to place and two to finish. Once the placing was done, those two went behind for final finish and broom. Worked out very well like that. So well, we might have been fine with 3. BUT, in So. TX, you should never skimp on help. That sun and heat will bite you fast if you let it. Have plenty of scars from that.

I would put steel to it before you broom. Floating leaves the surface matrix open, unsealed. Leads to a more porous surface and makes it more prone to chalking later. When the surface is steel troweled, it seals up all the small micro cracks you aren't seeing, preventing them from becoming bigger later. I have done it both ways many millions of time...steel always gives the best product hands down. Yes, the broom does tear it back open to a large degree, but one can't argue with the results. The steel troweled surfaces always fare better. That is where a lot of DG tees get inferior results due to skipping a vital step.


Yep! You can slow down the set up process a little with a slick finish that seals up the surface a little before you apply a broom finish. And I do not miss for one second what it was like following a trowel machine burning in edges as the slab is blowing up on you in direct heat and sunlight! LOL And now I wonder why the arthritis in my elbows acts up time to time? Burning in floors on my hands and knees and following curb machines all day will do it you!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keizer Rapids OR. Precast Tee Pads Jason Bruster Course Development 2 02-06-2012 01:49 AM
Concrete Tee Pads How-To onemilemore Course Design 2 02-05-2012 09:41 AM
Concrete Tee Pads-Stamped #19325 Course Maint. & Equipment 7 08-02-2011 01:51 PM
Who Has Ruined Concrete Tee Pads? esdubya Course Maint. & Equipment 33 12-24-2010 08:48 AM
Concrete pads in Massachusetts Waddly Hobbins Course Design 3 09-14-2009 03:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.