Making the mando and being behind it

[BogeyNoMore]

Really haven't been following this thread, so I apologize if it's been brought up already, but this seems like it could be relevant in terms of dealing with mandos.

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore

Effective as of Jan. 1, 2022, the PGDA changed the rule for defining the Line of Play, as it pertains to mandos.

https://www.pdga.com/news/disc-golf-...rking-your-lie


Previously, the LOP was defined by the disc and the mando, not by the disc and the basket.

Now, it's defined by the disc and the basket, regardless where the mando is.

[txmxer]

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore

Really haven't been following this thread, so I apologize if it's been brought up already, but this seems like it could be relevant in terms of dealing with mandos.

Saw this in the rules thread. I agree this is relevant as well. Took me a second to see it.

[biscoe]

Originally Posted by BillFleming

Unfortunately, by the rule...if your disc entered the restricted area during your throw (which includes the propulsion of the disc while it is in your hand) then you should have taken a penalty. Just "not worrying about where [the] backswing went" doesn't make it legal. That's why we are waiting for the clarification of the rule.

802.01.a A throw is the propulsion and release of a disc in order to change its position.

Oxford dictionary: Propulsion: The act of driving or pushing forward

So, when your backswing has completed and the disc is moving forward, it is a throw. If it enters the restricted area...it's a penalty and go to the drop zone or the previous lie....which is the spot you are at.

There are 3 conditions (propulsion,release, and intent) for the movement of the disc to be defined as a throw. Until they all occur there is no throw. What occurs prior to release is thereby irrelevant.

[txmxer]

Originally Posted by biscoe

There are 3 conditions (propulsion,release, and intent) for the movement of the disc to be defined as a throw. Until they all occur there is no throw. What occurs prior to release is thereby irrelevant.

Completely true.

But that still leaves a disc that ends up on the mando line may have two different routes to follow depending on how it got there.

[BillFleming]

Originally Posted by roblee

You have mentioned this several times before and it is an interesting interpretation. I don't think there is a rule where the motion of the disc before release can be penalized so this would be a new scenario. Currently, I don't think a "backswing plane break" is a penalty and I'm really interested in what the RC says.

The thing is that the new mando rules says if the throw causes the disc to fully enter the restricted area and the definition of a throw includes the movement before release. Before, the rule was simpler as it was based on where the disc came to rest. I'm really looking forward to how they clarify this rule.

[BillFleming]

Originally Posted by biscoe

There are 3 conditions (propulsion,release, and intent) for the movement of the disc to be defined as a throw. Until they all occur there is no throw. What occurs prior to release is thereby irrelevant.

Where in rule 802.01.a, which defines a throw does it say that intent is part of the throw? And where does it say that what happens prior to the release doesn't matter?

A throw is comprised of two parts....the propulsion of the disc AND the release of the disc.

A practice swing doesn't count since you aren't changing its position...by the rule.

[peabody]

I still say the disc is not in play until it's released.

[robdeforge]

Originally Posted by BillFleming

Where in rule 802.01.a, which defines a throw does it say that intent is part of the throw? And where does it say that what happens prior to the release doesn't matter?

https://www.pdga.com/faq/throw#t5541n237716

QA-THR-1: My throwing hand bumped a tree branch during my backswing, knocking the disc to the ground, and the disc rolled forward of my lie. Was that a throw?
No. A throw begins when the disc is moving forward in the intended direction. A disc dropped or knocked out before or during a backswing does not count as a throw.

[BillFleming]

Originally Posted by robdeforge

https://www.pdga.com/faq/throw#t5541n237716

Exactly....the FORWARD momentum of the disc is a throw. That's what I've been saying. Let me try and clarify.

Your stance is close to the line of the mando. Your backswing enters the restricted space from one direction (not a violation). Now your disc is on the other side of the plane of the restricted space. Then your arm and disc start to go FORWARD and again "breaks" the plane of the restricted area. At that point it is a violation. Per the rules, the direction that the disc enters the restricted area does not matter. So going backwards (backswing) doesn't violate the mando because it is a backswing, however, the subsequent forward motion DOES violate the mando as the disc was on one side of the restricted area and entirely entered the other side, crossing the line. There's no exception for if the the disc was in a "good spot" and the crossing of the mando line was just due to the swing. The only things that matter are: 1) the restricted space and 2) position of the disc during the throw.

That is the issue I have with the rule and am hoping for clarification or a change. But until it is "changed", if your backswing takes the disc fully into the restricted space and then the throw (forward motion and release) enters the restricted area...it is a penalty.

[BillFleming]

Originally Posted by peabody

I still say the disc is not in play until it's released.

You can say that, but the rule defines a throw to include the propulsion of the disc (which includes the forward motion while the disc is still in the hand). I would like to see the rule changed to be the release of the disc....I think it would be easier and would resolve the mando issue as you could reach back through the plane and make your forward movement as long as the disc is released after it re-crosses the line.

Making the "throw" be the release of the disc, would also make it match up to other rules...where your supporting point is depends on when the disc is released not during the propulsion of the disc.