Fee threshold for success of private courses.

[The Shide]

Originally Posted by glassila

I've played numerous courses in County and State parks in Michigan that just require you to pay to get into the park. I think it would be a little tricky to determine what percentage of those gate fees are from disc golfers.

The MetroParks in SE MI charge to enter the parks, then charge to play DG. The courses are pretty well kept. I think there are some other courses over there that do the same thing (gate fee & course fee). Bogey or ru4por would be better sources, though. Of the Metro Parks, I really only play Kensington (my "home away from home course").

[BogeyNoMore]

Originally Posted by The Shide

The MetroParks in SE MI charge to enter the parks, then charge to play DG. The courses are pretty well kept. I think there are some other courses over there that do the same thing (gate fee & course fee). Bogey or ru4por would be better sources, though. Of the Metro Parks, I really only play Kensington (my "home away from home course").

Prices below are for single day, non-resident.

Metroparks: Hudson Mills, Kensington, Stony Creek all have attendants collecting DG fees.
Willow charges to get in, but no DG fee (at least no one there to collect it).
Park admission $10/car Residency doesn't matter.
DG $3/person/day ; Toboggan = $5/day (not $3) ...when open
Park entry pass can be used at the other Metro Parks same day.

Washtenaw County Parks: Rolling Hills and Independence Lake
Entry = $10/car for non-resident; DG = $2/person/day (lock box/honor system)
Park entry pass can be used at the other the same day.

Addison Oaks County Park
Park Entry = $12/car non-resident ; no DG fee

Burchfield Park
Park Entry = $5/car non-resident.
Technically, there's a DG fee, but no one to collect it, and I don't recall a lock box. Suppose it's on the honor system when you pay to enter at the toll booth.

Michigan State Parks/Recreation Areas
$10/car for out of state plates ; no DG fee

Shide's right, they're all kept up pretty nicely.

[puttlikeablowfly]

As of a couple of years ago, I believe the City of Madison disc golf program brought in $80-90K per year from permits ($5/day or $40/year). That's for two 18-hole courses open roughly May-November, and one 18-hole winter course they put it when they close the others in late fall.

As for Dane County, they have two courses: 27-holes for Vallarta-Ast (Token Creek) and 18 at Capital Springs. I believe they budget for about $100K in permit fees annually, charging $8/day and $50/year.

[elmexdela]

Originally Posted by elmexdela

what courses are the high profit courses that people keep referring to

bump

anyone have an answer

[johnrhouck]

Originally Posted by elmexdela

bump

anyone have an answer

Puttlikeablowfly just gave good numbers from Madison, and I think the same is true in Milwaukee, but I haven't seen those numbers in a while. I've had a couple property owners confidentially reveal their numbers to me -- sorry I can't give their names.

I've heard that Blue Ribbon Pines has tons of players, and there are others we can speculate about. The threshold we were discussing recently ($20,000) is not at all a high one. For example, Selah Ranch charges $25/day. If they had players 40 weeks a year, they'd only need to bring in $500 a weekend, which is 20 people. Clearly they do a lot better than that.

So, while I can't give you proof today, I am convinced that there are a good number of courses that bring in much more than $20K a year from greens fees.

[elmexdela]

Originally Posted by johnrhouck

Puttlikeablowfly just gave good numbers from Madison, and I think the same is true in Milwaukee, but I haven't seen those numbers in a while. I've had a couple property owners confidentially reveal their numbers to me -- sorry I can't give their names.

I've heard that Blue Ribbon Pines has tons of players, and there are others we can speculate about. The threshold we were discussing recently ($20,000) is not at all a high one. For example, Selah Ranch charges $25/day. If they had players 40 weeks a year, they'd only need to bring in $500 a weekend, which is 20 people. Clearly they do a lot better than that.

So, while I can't give you proof today, I am convinced that there are a good number of courses that bring in much more than $20K a year from greens fees.

is madison model/city model different from a privately owned land/operation

or we just talkin fees in general

[elmexdela]

Originally Posted by johnrhouck

Puttlikeablowfly just gave good numbers from Madison, and I think the same is true in Milwaukee, but I haven't seen those numbers in a while. I've had a couple property owners confidentially reveal their numbers to me -- sorry I can't give their names.

I've heard that Blue Ribbon Pines has tons of players, and there are others we can speculate about. The threshold we were discussing recently ($20,000) is not at all a high one. For example, Selah Ranch charges $25/day. If they had players 40 weeks a year, they'd only need to bring in $500 a weekend, which is 20 people. Clearly they do a lot better than that.

So, while I can't give you proof today, I am convinced that there are a good number of courses that bring in much more than $20K a year from greens fees.

also i dont have exact numbers either but brp has hired staff to help operate/maintain it which to me is an indicator of their success

[nothinbuttree]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

I'm talking about a standalone operation with 18 short holes, our equivalent of miniature golf courses with at most food vending machines. I believe one key to success is a setup that also attracts non-disc golfers who can successfully throw Frisbees right away, with potentially a few ace runs, in the same way grandma or a 7-yr old can pick up a golf putter and play miniature golf on vacation having never done so before.

This sounds like Winton Woods in Cincy, except the vending. That is a pay to play park (though there is never a fee station on the particular road to the course, but I still think many do pay or have annual passes to the park system. That place has been packed every time I have been (have kids who love the course--they can actually birdie a few holes here and there). Its great putter/mid practice too for more seasoned players.

I am sure a fee station there, dedicated just to the course, would not keep too many away. What makes it tick? Well, it's in the middle of a larger metro area with a really good disc golf scene. That helps for sure. Course has concrete around the baskets on all the greens, which I hate, but most folks don't seem to mind. There are many other free choices in the area, but this is one of the few courses that is truly beginner-friendly. I think that is key--how many of the masses does a course appeal to? Most courses are designed for intermediate to advanced players in mind. The short tees for rec players seem to usually be an afterthought. Problem is--there are far more sub 900 players than 900+ players out there. My hunch would be the median player rating (if we all had one) would be in the low 800s. Maybe even lower. Design a course for that player, and my guess is it would do OK. Especially if there aren't many like that around.

[Cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by nothinbuttree

This sounds like Winton Woods in Cincy, except the vending. That is a pay to play park (though there is never a fee station on the particular road to the course, but I still think many do pay or have annual passes to the park system. That place has been packed every time I have been (have kids who love the course--they can actually birdie a few holes here and there). Its great putter/mid practice too for more seasoned players.

I am sure a fee station there, dedicated just to the course, would not keep too many away. What makes it tick? Well, it's in the middle of a larger metro area with a really good disc golf scene. That helps for sure. Course has concrete around the baskets on all the greens, which I hate, but most folks don't seem to mind. There are many other free choices in the area, but this is one of the few courses that is truly beginner-friendly. I think that is key--how many of the masses does a course appeal to? Most courses are designed for intermediate to advanced players in mind. The short tees for rec players seem to usually be an afterthought. Problem is--there are far more sub 900 players than 900+ players out there. My hunch would be the median player rating (if we all had one) would be in the low 800s. Maybe even lower. Design a course for that player, and my guess is it would do OK. Especially if there aren't many like that around.

Blendon Woods in Columbus was another example I had in mind.

[nothinbuttree]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

Blendon Woods in Columbus was another example I had in mind.

Haven't played that one yet--does that have concrete around the baskets? If not, I am so there--I mean I am so taking my kids there...