#191  
Old 09-18-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
My distance has been on a linear progression where I see slow steady gains. Holes that were impossible to get early on I now get with ease. They aren't far holes by any means but there was a time, not too long ago, where I thought 300 feet was just unreachable. Now, Im eyeying down a 432 foot hole on a course that I think can be reached in one throw. Probably not this year but next year for sure.
Out of curiosity and to segue back to the initial topic here, how far do you throw a putter with the one-leg drill now? If you ended up doing this drill again and are having good results with the feel, I imagine we are, like you said, talking past each other about the same concept.
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  #192  
Old 09-18-2020, 03:25 PM
RyanRehberg535 RyanRehberg535 is offline
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Rodeo,

Do you think you have just magically discovered some new concept about throwing a disc that somehow all of us have never thought of or tried? Do you expect to just continue trying to rotate you hips faster and sustain constant improvement until you are throwing 430+? If what you are describing really worked we would all be pros. Every single one of us, by nothing but work ethic, would pick up our discs go out in a field, tell ourselves to rotate faster, and over the course of months or years be throwing 500+.

But that is not the case, and every single individual here I guarantee has their own testimony of how they tried what you are describing. It probably led many of us to throw relatively far depending on athletic ability and physical strength. But I can tell you that there is a plateau waiting for you down that road that will (hopefully) open your eyes to realizing that maybe everyone here disagreeing with you isn't as blind as you seem to think we are, or being contrary just because you think we don't like you.

You might be happy with the progress you make, and when you inevitably plateau you might be content with where you're at. But if you want to become elite, or at least unlock your full potential, I suggest you consider heeding the advice of the experts trying to help you, as well as those of us who were once in your shoes.

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  #193  
Old 09-18-2020, 03:50 PM
NoseDownKing NoseDownKing is offline
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Ugh. The rear leg does not rotate the hips. The rear leg shifts the bodymass onto the front leg. The bodyshift is a linear motion and after the front leg plants onto the ground, that motion becomes rotational.

Every motion in a biomechanically correct throw is a reaction from some other motion. Having weight shift and rotation as two separate things makes absolutely no sence.

Try and hang of a door handle with your butt leading forward like in a reachback (seabas22 doorframe drill) Hang off with all your weight then release your hand off the handle and land on your front leg. You won't naturally rotate before landing on the front leg. You're going to fall on your front leg being turned back and only once you land on that plant foot are you going to start rotating. And that rotation is the exact same motion/energy as the linear weightshift before it. It just changes the direction of it.

I don't know why it seems to you that the pros rotate before landing on the front leg. That definitely is not the case.




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  #194  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:17 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Ugh. The rear leg does not rotate the hips. The rear leg shifts the bodymass onto the front leg. The bodyshift is a linear motion and after the front leg plants onto the ground, that motion becomes rotational.

Every motion in a biomechanically correct throw is a reaction from some other motion. Having weight shift and rotation as two separate things makes absolutely no sence.

Try and hang of a door handle with your butt leading forward like in a reachback (seabas22 doorframe drill) Hang off with all your weight then release your hand off the handle and land on your front leg. You won't naturally rotate before landing on the front leg. You're going to fall on your front leg being turned back and only once you land on that plant foot are you going to start rotating. And that rotation is the exact same motion/energy as the linear weightshift before it. It just changes the direction of it.

I don't know why it seems to you that the pros rotate before landing on the front leg. That definitely is not the case.




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Well, we are just gonna have to disagree and move on.
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  #195  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:19 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by RowingBoats View Post
Out of curiosity and to segue back to the initial topic here, how far do you throw a putter with the one-leg drill now? If you ended up doing this drill again and are having good results with the feel, I imagine we are, like you said, talking past each other about the same concept.
I don't do the one leg drills but I can throw a putter quite a ways. I don't like the grip on putters- the rim feels weird to me and so I use a fan grip. I use that on one hole that's around 200 feet. I often overshoot it.
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  #196  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:22 PM
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I don't do the one leg drills but I can throw a putter quite a ways. I don't like the grip on putters- the rim feels weird to me and so I use a fan grip. I use that on one hole that's around 200 feet. I often overshoot it.
So, you still fundamentally disagree that the one-leg drill, as explained through this thread, is irrelevant to feeling the actual engine of the throw?

I guess we will have to just leave it at that then.
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  #197  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:24 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by RyanRehberg535 View Post
Rodeo,

Do you think you have just magically discovered some new concept about throwing a disc that somehow all of us have never thought of or tried? Do you expect to just continue trying to rotate you hips faster and sustain constant improvement until you are throwing 430+? If what you are describing really worked we would all be pros. Every single one of us, by nothing but work ethic, would pick up our discs go out in a field, tell ourselves to rotate faster, and over the course of months or years be throwing 500+.

But that is not the case, and every single individual here I guarantee has their own testimony of how they tried what you are describing. It probably led many of us to throw relatively far depending on athletic ability and physical strength. But I can tell you that there is a plateau waiting for you down that road that will (hopefully) open your eyes to realizing that maybe everyone here disagreeing with you isn't as blind as you seem to think we are, or being contrary just because you think we don't like you.

You might be happy with the progress you make, and when you inevitably plateau you might be content with where you're at. But if you want to become elite, or at least unlock your full potential, I suggest you consider heeding the advice of the experts trying to help you, as well as those of us who were once in your shoes.
I think Im throwing similar to others. I just see the mechanics and what's happening in my eyes a bit different.

But yeah, I do feel that Im on track to just keep throwing further and further all the time. Nothing feels weird or out of place. I can feel the weight of the disc whipping out of my hand. I just know that through more repetitions over time my speed will increase quite a ways still.

You should realize that I started on my dominant right side and did plateau around 300 feet max. I got injured from throwing too much. I started over from my left and it's totally different. I was all arming it before. Now, there's really no arm involved, it's all hips and torso.
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  #198  
Old 09-19-2020, 10:32 AM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
And, again, we don't feel it so much, but there is a powerful kinetic chain that starts on that initial slight turn by the rear hip as it starts the rotation into and through foot plant. As the weight totally shifts and you can feel the pressure on the foot bracing, the torso also starts to unwind very powerfully. The hips are ahead of the torso in rotation just as the torso is ahead of the shoulders in rotation and lastly the arm gets whipped through like a bull whip ejecting the disc. It's that sequence of the rotation which starts in the rear leg and hip that is the engine so to speak, for the arm and disc to accelerate so forcefully.
He's not totally wrong, and there are a lot of examples from ball golf that think the same way.

The trouble is feel and real are two very different things.

I've been getting some better distance lately getting more onto the front leg. I've been working on it for years! I have arthritis in that ankle from a parachuting injury and it's starting to hurt more, too, dunno what will happen with that. But is my distance from better form, or because I'm suddenly getting some nose down throws?

Back to rotation. Most people here seem to have had the experience that trying to rotate leads us down the wrong path. Shawn Clement's golf videos focus on a loading of the front leg that is very similar to what is talked about here.

But there are golf videos that focus on the rotation, too, Like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-8bk1zvTX8

And beato style right pec style drills inevitably get us focusing on torso and hip rotation rather than what it's trying to teach.

If I had to guess, without the benefit of force plates and slow motion high speed, I would guess that it's impossible/difficult for the rear leg to generate rotation (contrary to that triple extension pitching video). The rear leg can push laterally very easily by straightening bent knee and ankle. If that force is offset from the axis of rotation there will be rotation but leakage of power. (my speculation) But it's easy for the front leg to generate rotation. All it has to do is push in line with the foot. And maybe that happens naturally as we brace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AR9ZaMetg

For myself, more one leg drill, more doorway drill. For rodeo, who knows? Interesting discussion anyway.
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  #199  
Old 09-19-2020, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post
He's not totally wrong, and there are a lot of examples from ball golf that think the same way.

The trouble is feel and real are two very different things.

I've been getting some better distance lately getting more onto the front leg. I've been working on it for years! I have arthritis in that ankle from a parachuting injury and it's starting to hurt more, too, dunno what will happen with that. But is my distance from better form, or because I'm suddenly getting some nose down throws?

Back to rotation. Most people here seem to have had the experience that trying to rotate leads us down the wrong path. Shawn Clement's golf videos focus on a loading of the front leg that is very similar to what is talked about here.

But there are golf videos that focus on the rotation, too, Like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-8bk1zvTX8

And beato style right pec style drills inevitably get us focusing on torso and hip rotation rather than what it's trying to teach.

If I had to guess, without the benefit of force plates and slow motion high speed, I would guess that it's impossible/difficult for the rear leg to generate rotation (contrary to that triple extension pitching video). The rear leg can push laterally very easily by straightening bent knee and ankle. If that force is offset from the axis of rotation there will be rotation but leakage of power. (my speculation) But it's easy for the front leg to generate rotation. All it has to do is push in line with the foot. And maybe that happens naturally as we brace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AR9ZaMetg

For myself, more one leg drill, more doorway drill. For rodeo, who knows? Interesting discussion anyway.
I agree with this, but feel like intending to rotate will limit you in a way that is far from subtle. It cuts off the path to systematically adding more power to brace against. The difference, internally in my mind, is categorical, and not semantic.
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  #200  
Old 09-19-2020, 04:22 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post
He's not totally wrong, and there are a lot of examples from ball golf that think the same way.

The trouble is feel and real are two very different things.

I've been getting some better distance lately getting more onto the front leg. I've been working on it for years! I have arthritis in that ankle from a parachuting injury and it's starting to hurt more, too, dunno what will happen with that. But is my distance from better form, or because I'm suddenly getting some nose down throws?

Back to rotation. Most people here seem to have had the experience that trying to rotate leads us down the wrong path. Shawn Clement's golf videos focus on a loading of the front leg that is very similar to what is talked about here.

But there are golf videos that focus on the rotation, too, Like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-8bk1zvTX8

And beato style right pec style drills inevitably get us focusing on torso and hip rotation rather than what it's trying to teach.

If I had to guess, without the benefit of force plates and slow motion high speed, I would guess that it's impossible/difficult for the rear leg to generate rotation (contrary to that triple extension pitching video). The rear leg can push laterally very easily by straightening bent knee and ankle. If that force is offset from the axis of rotation there will be rotation but leakage of power. (my speculation) But it's easy for the front leg to generate rotation. All it has to do is push in line with the foot. And maybe that happens naturally as we brace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AR9ZaMetg

For myself, more one leg drill, more doorway drill. For rodeo, who knows? Interesting discussion anyway.
Feel and reality are different in one sense and yet, under careful study, should align. In the disc golf swing it doesn't feel like the rear hip does anything and that the front brave provides the rotation. My right hip and glutimus were getting sore so I started to more carefully scrutinize my throw and pros. What I found was that each hip provides a different action that is equally powerful in initiating hip and torso rotation. As I broke down my mechanics it was then that I felt what each leg and hip was or is doing. This alone helped me to add distance more easily to my throw as for the timing aspect. The rear leg and hip has to rotate inward in order for the rotation to begin. In the baseball swing you can readily see this. The hips act very similar in the baseball swing as they do in the disc golf swing. Hip rotation is interesting because we don't feel most hip rotation in our daily life.

You don't feel the rotation for example when you walk. The hips however are constantly tilting up and down, forward and back, and, most importantly- rotating left to right when you stride. An olympic sprinter who explodes off the chalk is rotating their hips very powerfully from left to right. The shoulders and arms swing counter the rotation of the hips in the opposite direction to stabilize the upper half, keep balance and keep the hair straight. Now, we don't really feel our hips rotating. All we feel is a forward motion.

You can best feel hip rotation and how each leg and hip rotate by standing shoulder length apart and rotate from right to left and back again pretending you are pulling a rope from each direction side to side. while shifting weight from right to left and back again. You will notice how it requires both legs and hips during the weight shift to properly rotate. As your weight goes from your rear leg to the front the rear leg and hip are rotating into the brace at weight shift. Then as the majority of the weight shifts to the front leg that rotation continues. Now, try doing that same thing standing just on one leg. You can't do it- you can't fully rotate efficiently or effectively without the role of each leg providing rotation.

Now, do the same drill of pulling that imaginary rope but this time do it with power and force. Now note the importance of the rear leg in not only powerfully lateral movement but also that same rotation being initiated. That's what you should feel. The more forceful you are in the drill the stronger the brace.

I will provide a video to show what I'm talking about.
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