#351  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:37 AM
RandyC RandyC is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 353
Niced 254 Times in 141 Posts
Default

So here is the thing Rodeo. Human body is a great piece of machinery which is suitable for many different tasks. It performs on an optimal level when you are doing the right task and the more you do it the better you get at it. Here your stubborness will definently reward you, as repetition is the key for success. The only problem you are facing is that you are doing the wrong task. You say that it feels like you are doing the right thing, you would be right if your task were to pull something, say a rope or a lawnmower cord. Your hips rotate to get your upper body out of the way of the pull and your upper body tips over to get some mass behind the pull, so you are not relying only on arm strenght. I belive the term used by golf industry would be "coming over the top".
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #352  
Old 09-28-2020, 10:39 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
If you compared a typical Am you would see notable differences from either Paige.

What do you see that is completely different between the Paiges?
Well, for starters their x step is different. Shue turns her footwork more, shows more initial back and has to thus pivot more on her axis.
Reply With Quote
  #353  
Old 09-28-2020, 10:47 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyC View Post
So here is the thing Rodeo. Human body is a great piece of machinery which is suitable for many different tasks. It performs on an optimal level when you are doing the right task and the more you do it the better you get at it. Here your stubborness will definently reward you, as repetition is the key for success. The only problem you are facing is that you are doing the wrong task. You say that it feels like you are doing the right thing, you would be right if your task were to pull something, say a rope or a lawnmower cord. Your hips rotate to get your upper body out of the way of the pull and your upper body tips over to get some mass behind the pull, so you are not relying only on arm strenght. I belive the term used by golf industry would be "coming over the top".
The hips rotate to generate torque.
Reply With Quote
  #354  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:10 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 936
Niced 816 Times in 386 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I honestly believe most people's "plateau" issues are lack of effort and belief- they give up too easy or the first sign of the perceived unclimable hill.
While this may be true in some cases, in other cases it is simply that the laws of physics have exposed the limitations of their form at that time. You don't have a monopoly on effort and belief. Effort and belief alone will not beat out effort + belief + better mechanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I look at most of the form critiques and the first thing that cones to my mind in general is they just need to be patient and pur more effort in- actually try to visualize their mechanics being more explosive and rhen be more explosive. Timing issues get worked out along the way.
If this were true then a lot more people would be throwing 500' - think of how many people have been playing for several years and have been doing just what you say. If your mechanics are flawed, it doesn't matter how explosive they are. Again, physics affects everyone equally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
It's interesting that walking and running requires a very complex set of mechanics and balance. But we don't teach kids how to walk or run, they do it on their own from trial and error.
This analogy is flawed. Here are some reasons why:

1) Human bipedal locomotion has been evolving for millions of years. Adaptations that help with walking/running on two legs, such as thickening of bones, curvature of the spine, etc. have developed over that time, making the act of walking/running more natural. Throwing a disc backhand is not something that has undergone a similar process of adaptation.

2) We do teach kids to walk. We hold them by the hands, encourage them to do what is known as "cruising" on furniture, walking toys, etc.

3) Furthermore, we are not talking about simply throwing a disc. We are talking about doing so more optimally in order to increase distance. People can learn through trial and error, but when those trials and errors have already been documented, people who achieve greater mastery and performance are those who learn from others and skip those previous trials and errors.

Most everyone who has the ability to walk/run can do so. But why can some people walk/run faster than others, even accounting for effort? Part of it is genetics, sure. But even among those with optimal genetics, and similar levels of effort, they undergo stride analysis, learning how to run more efficiently and get more out of each stride.

Your approach is "if you want to run faster, then just run a lot and just run faster." The people who actually run faster are improving their stride mechanics in order to maximize efficiency of force transfer. They apply their effort and belief to better movement patterns.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #355  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:55 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
While this may be true in some cases, in other cases it is simply that the laws of physics have exposed the limitations of their form at that time. You don't have a monopoly on effort and belief. Effort and belief alone will not beat out effort + belief + better mechanics.



If this were true then a lot more people would be throwing 500' - think of how many people have been playing for several years and have been doing just what you say. If your mechanics are flawed, it doesn't matter how explosive they are. Again, physics affects everyone equally.



This analogy is flawed. Here are some reasons why:

1) Human bipedal locomotion has been evolving for millions of years. Adaptations that help with walking/running on two legs, such as thickening of bones, curvature of the spine, etc. have developed over that time, making the act of walking/running more natural. Throwing a disc backhand is not something that has undergone a similar process of adaptation.

2) We do teach kids to walk. We hold them by the hands, encourage them to do what is known as "cruising" on furniture, walking toys, etc.

3) Furthermore, we are not talking about simply throwing a disc. We are talking about doing so more optimally in order to increase distance. People can learn through trial and error, but when those trials and errors have already been documented, people who achieve greater mastery and performance are those who learn from others and skip those previous trials and errors.

Most everyone who has the ability to walk/run can do so. But why can some people walk/run faster than others, even accounting for effort? Part of it is genetics, sure. But even among those with optimal genetics, and similar levels of effort, they undergo stride analysis, learning how to run more efficiently and get more out of each stride.

Your approach is "if you want to run faster, then just run a lot and just run faster." The people who actually run faster are improving their stride mechanics in order to maximize efficiency of force transfer. They apply their effort and belief to better movement patterns.
From what I've seen about those I talk to personally and play with- Most disc golfers don't really work exclusively on distance. They generally go out and play on the course and take very few max effort shots. When they do fieldwork for distance they don't really do it long enough to work through the perceived plateau. There's times where I will go out every day and throw and my distance seems about the same for several days or a week. But I just keep pushing and then the next week comes along and I will get one out just a bit farther. This cycle repeats but it isn't easy to keep getting gains. Like I have said previously, there's days where I will throw 3-4 hours just working on distance alone and quite a lot of them are max effort shots. I'm 47 years old and have always had hip and knee problems. There's days where my joints hurt so bad but I suck it up and throw anyway. I don't know of any disc golfers around me that practice their distance as much as I do. I have gone from struggling yo hit 175-200 feet off the tee pad to now overshooting 300 foot holes on a less than max effort shot. That's happened in less than 2 months.

I watch a lot of disc golf and watch others mechanics. Im always trying new things, just like everyone else. The reality is that everyone finds the path through trial and error. Many give up prematurely because they think they cant throw harder and it must be mechanic related. The reality is, from what I have witnessed firsthand, you can't throw farther if you cease putting in hard work and effort.
Reply With Quote
  #356  
Old 09-28-2020, 03:12 PM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Virginia
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 220
Niced 25 Times in 19 Posts
Default

Practice makes permanent, musicians say.

There's a risk here, in that you could get really really good at something that is either wrong, or not really wrong but has a limit where you hit a wall and can't improve.
Reply With Quote
  #357  
Old 09-28-2020, 03:29 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 936
Niced 816 Times in 386 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
From what I've seen about those I talk to personally and play with- Most disc golfers don't really work exclusively on distance. They generally go out and play on the course and take very few max effort shots. When they do fieldwork for distance they don't really do it long enough to work through the perceived plateau. There's times where I will go out every day and throw and my distance seems about the same for several days or a week. But I just keep pushing and then the next week comes along and I will get one out just a bit farther. This cycle repeats but it isn't easy to keep getting gains. Like I have said previously, there's days where I will throw 3-4 hours just working on distance alone and quite a lot of them are max effort shots. I'm 47 years old and have always had hip and knee problems. There's days where my joints hurt so bad but I suck it up and throw anyway. I don't know of any disc golfers around me that practice their distance as much as I do. I have gone from struggling yo hit 175-200 feet off the tee pad to now overshooting 300 foot holes on a less than max effort shot. That's happened in less than 2 months.

I watch a lot of disc golf and watch others mechanics. Im always trying new things, just like everyone else. The reality is that everyone finds the path through trial and error. Many give up prematurely because they think they cant throw harder and it must be mechanic related. The reality is, from what I have witnessed firsthand, you can't throw farther if you cease putting in hard work and effort.
1) Small sample size

2) A blind squirrel can find a nut through trial and error. But if another squirrel tells them where the nut is and teaches them how to get to where the nuts are, then that squirrel will have to do a lot less searching. The blind squirrel can then focus hard work and effort into learning the path to the nuts, rather than spending hard work and effort on finding dead ends and ruling them out.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #358  
Old 09-28-2020, 04:35 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post
Practice makes permanent, musicians say.

There's a risk here, in that you could get really really good at something that is either wrong, or not really wrong but has a limit where you hit a wall and can't improve.
True, but I've already surpassed my goal and so I'm in bonus land now.

Is 300 easy feet wrong for a person my age?
Reply With Quote
  #359  
Old 09-28-2020, 04:36 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 353
Niced 254 Times in 141 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
True, but I've already surpassed my goal and so I'm in bonus land now.

Is 300 easy feet wrong for a person my age?
My dad is 70y and can hit 300ft somewhat easy.
Reply With Quote
 

  #360  
Old 09-28-2020, 04:36 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
1) Small sample size

2) A blind squirrel can find a nut through trial and error. But if another squirrel tells them where the nut is and teaches them how to get to where the nuts are, then that squirrel will have to do a lot less searching. The blind squirrel can then focus hard work and effort into learning the path to the nuts, rather than spending hard work and effort on finding dead ends and ruling them out.
I'm not in the dark, I watch lots of disc golf and pick up on things. I just see it a bit different than others. I like to think I have found the easier path to throwing without injury.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shifting from behind/Bracing/Getting on top of the front leg Question DustBorne Technique & Strategy 4 08-08-2019 03:05 PM
Hammer drill question Kattrax Technique & Strategy 7 01-18-2018 04:29 PM
Right Pec drill question Nold Technique & Strategy 7 08-15-2013 01:07 PM
Right pec drill question ertai Technique & Strategy 2 07-24-2013 01:28 AM
right pec drill question jspector Technique & Strategy 17 02-10-2013 09:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.