#61  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:34 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Agreed. Plus this rule is ridiculous as well: "Failure to turn in a scorecard on time results in the addition of two penalty throws to the score of each player listed on the late scorecard."

I maybe could see the player who brings the card in late, but the entire card? When were these rules put in place? Recently or perhaps decades ago?
You are right. It is ridiculous that they get a 2 stroke penalty. They should be disqualified.
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  #62  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:36 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
It's EVERY player's responsibility to make sure their score is reported properly. If you can't be bothered to ensure your scorecard is turned in promptly by doing it yourself, you're abdicating your responsibility and deserve any penalty that might come from doing so.
I get that for the most part, but it's still silly to penalize the entire card for those rare occasions when someone takes the card, and something happens causing him to be late turning it in.

You're a TD, could you answer this question please? If you happen to be at the right time at the right place, and you witness an obvious foot fault that none of the players called, would you be required to call it, or do you have the option to ignore it, or do you penalize the entire card for not calling it?
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  #63  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:37 AM
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Future_Primitive Future_Primitive is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Agreed. Plus this rule is ridiculous as well: "Failure to turn in a scorecard on time results in the addition of two penalty throws to the score of each player listed on the late scorecard."

I maybe could see the player who brings the card in late, but the entire card? When were these rules put in place? Recently or perhaps decades ago?
Because the entire card is missing from setting up the board for round two or calculating the final results if after round two. Both of these scenarios involve an entire card missing and holding up the entire tournament so the entire card is at fault. Its actually better if the whole card turns it in so they are all present to answer any questions on issues that may arise. Not up to the TD to determine which person is at fault, since it was a group decision to leave with it one person the whole group is at fault should it now show up.

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  #64  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:43 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by Future_Primitive View Post
Not up to the TD to determine which person is at fault, since it was a group decision to leave with it one person the whole group is at fault should it now show up.
In my 100+ tournaments some strange things has happened and one of those is the card getting stroked due to a dude having to take a spontaneous dump which took longer than he thought. Another one which was 100% my fault, I put my bag in the car, then drove off to lunch with the guys on the card and pulled out the card to show the scores during lunch, and yep...you can guess what happened next. Felt bad for the card, in that respect I see no reason the entire card should have been penalized.
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  #65  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:56 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
I get that for the most part, but it's still silly to penalize the entire card for those rare occasions when someone takes the card, and something happens causing him to be late turning it in.

You're a TD, could you answer this question please? If you happen to be at the right time at the right place, and you witness an obvious foot fault that none of the players called, would you be required to call it, or do you have the option to ignore it, or do you penalize the entire card for not calling it?
Future_Primitive covered the card penalty thing. You always have the choice to turn the card in yourself rather than let someone else do it, therefore if you let someone else do it, you leave yourself at the mercy of what they do. Doesn't matter if they failed to turn it in intentionally or something unavoidable came up, the penalty goes to the whole group because the whole group is responsible for turning in their scores.

As for your other question, as TD I'm not required to make any calls unless asked. To not make a call in your hypothetical isn't to ignore it, it's to let the players do what they're supposed to do. It's important to note that officials are not supposed to be active referees. That's the players' job by rule. Officials, including TDs, are there to solve disputes and make rulings when asked by the players.

So no, I wouldn't call the foot fault and I would not penalize the group for failing to do so. I would however, point out to the player and the group what I saw and remind them to be mindful of the rules and their responsibilities.

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  #66  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:01 PM
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Consult20 Consult20 is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I have played 4-5 events using it. It is being pushed around here since Ganz is a Virginian and there are multiple PDGA Board members in Northern Virginia. My first inclination was to hate it and I still have no intention of keeping score that way myself but it works well as long as someone in the group is willing to do it. I don't see myself ever being comfortable with eliminating the paper scorecard for backup though (which I am perfectly willing to keep myself).

It benefits events as a whole in eliminating the need for TD's to check player's math. It also allows players to watch how opponents not in their group are scoring during the round which I like personally. Another benefit is it gets the individual hole scores into the system which is useful data in any number of ways.
Are you sure about that? Please see attached and calculate the 2nd player's score -- 68 not 70 -- tell me how this could happen.
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  #67  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:13 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Are you sure about that? Please see attached and calculate the 2nd player's score -- 68 not 70 -- tell me how this could happen.
Online scoring does not mean official scoring. If the paper card was turned in with an error, the player is subject to penalty even if the online scoring was correct.

Or....it may have been discovered after the round that the player had misplayed a hole during the round. The penalty for that is +2, which the TD may not have bothered to add to the appropriate hole on the online scorecard, instead just opting to fix the total score in the online manager.

The live scoring page shows the hole by hole scores, but the total it displays is not derived from the added total of those holes. It comes from the round score input, which is separate in the score manager.
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  #68  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:13 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Are you sure about that? Please see attached and calculate the 2nd player's score -- 68 not 70 -- tell me how this could happen.
I am sure that is the intent. I have no actual idea how that could happen since i am not the programmer. Obviously it is a problem. Did you or Terry contact the Tech guys at PDGA?
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  #69  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:24 PM
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krupicka krupicka is online now
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It could be that the players did not use live scoring but turned in a paper scorecard with an incorrect total. TD enters hole by hole scores for benefit of all players and accurately records the total with the misadded scorecrard penalty. Can't say what happened without more information.
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  #70  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:31 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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It could be that the players did not use live scoring but turned in a paper scorecard with an incorrect total. TD enters hole by hole scores for benefit of all players and accurately records the total with the misadded scorecrard penalty. Can't say what happened without more information.
yeah, would be nice to know the entire story step by step...
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